Why are Jews hated so much?

[Guest charlie]

Yod, here's just one article on the plight of the Palistinian Christian.

*********************************************************

Christian Coalition Abandonment of Palestinian Christians is Hypocritical

Wednesday, October 23 2002 @ 05:28 AM EDT

By Sherri Muzher

MICHIGAN (PINA) - Recently, the Christian Coalition held a rally in Washington DC to re-capture the "glory days" when it held considerable power in the 1990s Republican political arena.

It proudly reiterated its staunch support of Israel and its opposition to any Palestinian state. But as a Palestinian-American Republican of the Christian faith, I found this display to be nothing short of shameful and hypocritical.

Fundamentalist Christian ministers like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson would have their congregations believe that if one does not stand by Israel, God would not forgive them. It is also believed that for Jesus Christ to return to Earth, support for Israel must be whole and unconditional. What Falwell, Robertson, and like-minded ministers don't tell their parishioners is that they are forsaking their Palestinian Christian brothers and sisters who are suffering under Israeli occupation.

The violence in the latest Palestinian Uprising for freedom has sadly claimed the lives of nearly 3,000 lives, overwhelmingly most of whom are Palestinian. Among them are Palestinian Christians. Many Palestinian homes have also been demolished by Caterpillar D9 bulldozers, and if the Christian Coalition thinks that Israeli guns and bulldozers are selective in their targets, they might want to consider bringing the next 700 Club show to the Palestinian territories.

The fact is that Palestinian Christians not only have been killed, but many others have been maimed and disabled for life by Israeli bullets. Christians have also suffered under the inhumane Israeli siege by not being able to leave their towns, go to their jobs, seek medical care, and attend schools. Churches have been fired on by Israeli anti-tank missiles, and at least one car carrying Catholic officials was fired on despite the waving of a Vatican flag.

What are some facts that everyday Americans should know about those they have forsaken? It often surprises people to know that Palestinian Christians are considered the "living stones" of Christianity since we are the direct descendants of the disciples of Jesus Christ. Further, Christians make up about 15% of the world's Palestinian population. Even popular St. George, still a patron saint throughout much of Europe, was a Palestinian Christian.

Among the most fervent players in the battle against Israeli occupation have been Palestinian Christians. Let us not forget articulate Palestinian spokeswoman, Hanan Ashrawi, and world literary critic and Columbia University professor, Dr. Edward Said. There's Roman Catholic Archbishop Michel Sabbah and Melkite Reverend and Author Elias Chacour. Among Palestinian revolutionary leaders, there are individuals like George Habash and Nayef Hawatmeh. And it should be noted that six parliament seats were allocated to the 70,000 Christians of the occupied territories during 1996 elections.

My intent is not to bring about a divide between Palestinian Muslims and Christians. After all, they have always fought side by side - both struggling for Palestinian liberation. A liberation of land, dignity, human rights, and security. Rather it is to demonstrate how an important segment of Palestinian society has been completely ignored throughout this conflict.

The Israeli PR machine has cleverly turned this whole situation into a religious conflict, to its credit. Islam is widely viewed as a religion for violent fanatics, which is far from the truth of this serene religion. But which side would the West understandably side with?

Falwell and Robertson are eloquent when talking about Christian values, but why are they siding with Israelis in this human liberation struggle? And where were they when the Israelis besieged one of Christianity's holiest sites, the Church of the Nativity -- the place of Jesus's birth -- earlier this year? Where were they a couple weeks ago when more than a hundred Palestinian Christians demonstrated against Israeli home demolitions in the town of Beit Sahour -- the town where the Three Wise Men first saw the Star of Bethlehem?

Many American Christian Evangelical pastors find their basis of support of Israel in the Book of the Revelations which predicts doom of the present world, but Christ once said, "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God." It seems that fulfilling prophecies while Palestinian Christians suffer under Israeli brutality is far more important than peace in the Holy Land.

Ultimately, this is a conflict between peoples not religions. But as the Christian Coalition abandons suffering Palestinian Christians, I wonder how well the Coalition members studied the psalms on hypocrisy?

The author is Juris Doctor in International Law, Media Analyst and Writer, based in Mason, Michigan

************************************************************

I just typed in Palistinian Christian in a search engine. I'm well aware of the fact that there are many brutal Muslim fundamentalists who are causing death and destruction. At this point I just find any kind of fundamentalism to be abborrant and destructive. I think the main reason the Christian fundamentalist leaders have not attempted to help the Christian Palistinians is because that group disagrees with the politics of the Christian fundamentalists here in the U.S. That's my opinion but then according to you and the other lady I'm an idiot. Nice Christian response there hehe.

[Work in Progress]

Charlie, I just came back in here to delete my post because it really wasn't necessary to say anything. I couldn't believe anyone still thinks as you and your mother do, and I posted without thinking. And that old mother hen thing kicked in. Mother's get funny reactions when their kids are referred to as "Christ killers" and "controlling all the money". I should have stayed out of it.

[Guest charlie]

Work in Progress, You do not owe me an apology at all. If anything i owe you one. I do not think Jews are Christ killers or own all the money and neither does my mother. I'm sure sorry that it came across that we "believe" that. Anyway, that's been 40 years ago that I asked my mother that question and it was because my father had told me about the Jews being herded into showers during WWII and poisoned with gas. I just couldn't understand why Hitler tried to kill all the Jews. I remember thinking about it and thinking about it and knowing that Jesus was a Jew it didn't make sense to me. So, I asked my mother. She didn't beat around the bush or talk it to death she simply told me that's why people hated the Jews. Evidently that was the perception of people. I don't think people back then remembered the fact that the first Christians were Jews. St. Peter, St. Paul, St. James etc. etc. My mother grew up in a "holler" and got married young. She is not a worldly person but in a lot of ways she's wise and she "picks" up on the "nitty gritty" of things. Looking back, considering her background I'm surprised that she even knew that those were the two reasons the Jews have been hated throughout the centuries. The only Jewish person she knew personally was my father's old boss and my parents liked him. He was the sole survivor from his family after WWII. (My mother did not "believe" this about the Jews herself, she did think that everyone else believed it though. I hate to say it but I do think she evaluated the issue correctly. Hope that clarifies what I meant.)

Now, having said this, I must say I do not like the way our Christian leaders have totally ignored the plight of the Christians in Palestine. I know that Israel has a special significance in Bible prophecy but some of the people in my old church and some of these televangelist get a zombied out look of glee on their faces when they talk about the future of Israel. They can't wait till all the Jews are gathered back in that place, the temple is rebuild, AC sits in it and all heck breaks loose. Of course they don't talk about the fact that almost everybody is gonna die there, except for them of course. They think they'll have been raptured out by then. I just don't don't how much of this "good will" toward Israel is actually selfishness and impatience. (God's acting too slowly to suit them.) I think that American Christians should be doing a lot more to help their brothers and sisters in that area whether they're palestinian or not. And just because the Israeli government is supposed to be Jewish is no reason to just go along with all their policies. I also believe that a lot of this Muslim fundamentalist hatred toward Israel is a result the actions of American oil companies keeping things "whipped" up over there. But then, that's another long discussion and I'm probably gonna get chewed another one for even saying that.

[Guest shiloh357]

Oh well....

[Guest yod]

This is really funny, Charles. I was at this convention with our illustrious WorthyNews editor and it's nothing like this person paints it. (Isn't Muzher a muslim name?)

Christian Coalition Abandonment of Palestinian Christians is Hypocritical

Wednesday, October 23 2002 @ 05:28 AM EDT

By Sherri Muzher 

What Falwell, Robertson, and like-minded ministers don't tell their parishioners is that they are forsaking their Palestinian Christian brothers and sisters who are suffering under Israeli occupation.

That is a sad situation and I don't want to make light of the suffering of the innocent on BOTH sides

But the Jordanian arabs known as Palestinians are suffering at the hands of Yassir Arafat....and for their support of Hamas. If the Jordanian arabs known as Palestinians would quit murdering children then there would be no need for restricting their movement into Israel. Under Israel's rule they have the highest living standard from Turkey to India.

In the meantime, anyone who lives in the areas controlled by them must be treated as if they might be a terrorist also.

The violence in the latest Palestinian Uprising for freedom has sadly claimed the lives of nearly 3,000 lives, overwhelmingly most of whom are Palestinian. Among them are Palestinian Christians. Many Palestinian homes have also been demolished by Caterpillar D9 bulldozers, and if the Christian Coalition thinks that Israeli guns and bulldozers are selective in their targets, they might want to consider bringing the next 700 Club show to the Palestinian territories.

That is a lot of poppycock. Palestinians christians do not throw rocks at tanks. They do not shoot small children or blow themselves up at dance clubs. Israel has been extremely careful to avoid civilian casualties when at all possible. Not so on the other side.

And if the 700 Club went to Palestinian territories they would not be in danger from Israel....but they would from the muslims.

The fact is that Palestinian Christians not only have been killed, but many others have been maimed and disabled for life by Israeli bullets.

Do you actually know any Palestinian christians? I know quite a few. This article is baloney and incitement. There is a man, George Nisan, who employed over 130 arab christians in Bethlehem. I went to see him and support his store in Bethlehem in 2001. It was scary just going into the city. [We also went to the Church of the Nativity and were harrassed by local thugs when we came out. This didn't happen anywhere else in Israel]

I saw George Nisan last month in Jerusalem. He has had to move out of Bethlehem because of the danger from Muslims and PLO terrorists. He's in Jerusalem (jewish control!) and his business is doing much better. He has absolutely no problems with the jews.

Churches have been fired on by Israeli anti-tank missiles, and at least one car carrying Catholic officials was fired on despite the waving of a Vatican flag.

Someone has a vivid imagination and a gullible audience.

Let us not forget articulate Palestinian spokeswoman, Hanan Ashrawi

Camel woman is a christian? I find that hard to believe.

And it should be noted that six parliament seats were allocated to the 70,000 Christians of the occupied territories during 1996 elections.

And who allocated them? Israel!

And where were they when the Israelis besieged one of Christianity's holiest sites, the Church of the Nativity -- the place of Jesus's birth -- earlier this year?

Are you so ignorant that you don't know why they besieged it? MUSLIMS had taken it over and were destroying it.

The author is Juris Doctor in International Law, Media Analyst and Writer, based in Mason, Michigan

and Sherri Muzher is also published by Al Jazeera.

Gee, who would have known?

[Adstar]

I know that Israel has a special significance in Bible prophecy but some of the people in my old church and some of these televangelist get a zombied out look of glee on their faces when they talk about the future of Israel. They can't wait till all the Jews are gathered back in that place, the temple is rebuild, AC sits in it and all heck breaks loose. Of course they don't talk about the fact that almost everybody is gonna die there, except for them of course. They think they'll have been raptured out by then. I just don't don't how much of this "good will" toward Israel is actually selfishness and impatience.

You may be right? Some may feel that way? I suppose they should read Amos:

Amos 5:18

Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good is the day of the LORD to you? It will be darkness, and not light.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Guest yod]

Amos 5:18

Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good is the day of the LORD to you? It will be darkness, and not light.

oh, that is a good one!

I'm not a fan of Falwall by any stretch of the imagination. He says many insensitive things....and provokes EVERYONE who doesn't think just like he does. He's a good example of how one's end-time beliefs can hinder the Great Commission.

Pat Robertson is not in the same catagory, imo. I believe he is sincerely trying to do what is just and righteous. After all, we are talking about Islamic terrorists in a nation smaller than New Jersey trying to bully a population with fear. The carnage is unbelievable.

There is a difference between following Genesis 12:3 and and trying to force God's plan....as Judas Iscariot did.

Anyone who is contributing to the building the next Temple is scary to me. I've seen the implents at the Temple Institute in Jerusalem...and we know that day is coming...but woe to those who are anxious for it.

[Guest charlie]

<<But the Jordanian arabs known as Palestinians are suffering at the hands of Yassir Arafat....and for their support of Hamas. If the Jordanian arabs known as Palestinians would quit murdering children then there would be no need for restricting their movement into Israel. Under Israel's rule they have the highest living standard from Turkey to India.>>

Yassir Arafat has blood on his hands Yod, he's a murderer and why "leaders" even give him the time of day is beyond me. I do also know that Israel has the highest living standard of any of those countries and that the Palestinians do not want to be absorbed into any of those surrounding countries, who are absolutely hugh compared to the dot on the map called Israel.

"Camel woman" as you refer to her is giving her worldview of the situation. I didn't buy everything she said especially as to why the Israeli's were at the Church of the Nativity, the Orthodox priests there did report that they were tortured (I think that was one of the words used) and just badly mistreated by the Muslim terrorists that held them. But keep in mind the Israeli side is gonna be bias in the other direction. You will always get their side. My point is NOT to excuse Muslim terrorists. My point, and I think her point in this article is that our Fundamentalist leaders are hypocrits. In that I think she's right. They are. There have been some terrible actions by the Israeli government to propogate things as well. No two sides are always gonna be right. However; is it right for the Jerry Fallwells, and the Pat Robertsons to be cheering ANYONE on here? NO it isn't their place. Their place if they want to be involved is to help the needy, and feed the poor. Their neglect to mention the Palistinian Christians is imo politically motivated. (If I get a chance later I'll try to find another article about the Church there ex-communicating President Bush). I know one family that is Palistinian and Christian. They think there should be a palistinian state and still refer to that region as Palistine. They don't think the U.S. deals with Israel in the same way that it deals with other countries. I can't tell you much more. In the past I didn't say much because I viewed the whole situation exactly as you do so I didn't want to hear anything that went against this view and I'd get angry if anyone said anything against Israel. These people are incredibly HOSTILE toward the Israeli government.

Being in your position Yod I have an interesting question. At your meetings have you fellas ever talked about how a lot of this muslim hatred got stirred up to start with? Have you an opinion as to how much of it has been caused by the American oil barons and their dirty dealings in that region? As you know the Bible says that in the future the entire world will turn against Israel. I can see that shaping up and here's the prochecy of Charlie (don't stone me if it don't come true, I'm just talking opinion here.) When the U.S. oil interest people decide that they don't NEED Israel to maintain a foothold or control in the middle east region any longer, they're gonna leave the Israelis hanging out to dry. When that happens you're gonna see Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson, Hal Lindsey and ALL the rest do the same. They'll abondon Israel like a bunch of rats jumping ship. Of course they'll nit-pick the Bible till they can find some legitimate excuse to smooth it over with all the other fundamentalists here at home. Probably go back to the church replacement theology or start sticking up for the Christians in the region. They'll quit using the phrase Judeao-Christian overnight. Bottom line is, they are wolves in sheeps clothing.

As for Israel, what should we do. Well, I don't know at this point. What we should have done is in the past. Our government and their government (not to mention the governments(royals) of some of those Arab countries )shouldn't have made a "pact" with the oil people which imo and that of many others is what has led to this (of course Satan has been using everyone here even though they're not aware of it). As for Jerry, Pat, Hal and the others they need to shut their mouths about polotics and quit trying to allign themselves with the U.S. govt. the Israeli govt. or any other govt. They're suppose to be aligned with Jesus. Also they shouldn't align themselves with other religions that do not accept Jesus because that's becoming unequally yoked. I think they should lend a helping hand and emmulate Jesus Christ to all people so others will want to know just who this Jesus is. That is their responsibility as Christians. That's just my opinion on this issue.

[Guest yod]

So you've got several Arab Christian friends? Hmmmm... I know of some Palistinian Christians who have immigrated here. What do your Palistinian "friends" have to say about the Israelis? I'd really like to hear what you are going to say to this.

I have a few Palestinian friends locally. Samu moved here to escape the craziness. He'll tell you that all politicians are greedy and corrupt. That's a fair assessment.

I have another friend here in Dallas name, Waheed, whose story needs to be told. He and his brother, Mohammed, moved to America after the Oslo Accords were signed and started some businesses...and were quite successful. So, Mohammed (whom I never met) wanted to share his wealth with his people in Bethlehem and went back to start a business there.

Israel requires new businesses to get a permit. Basically you have to post a bond to insure that you are not a fly-by-night and are serious about doing business. To do this, Mohammed had to go back and forth into Jerusalem meeting with government officials. He had all the paperwork done and was beginning to hire people when along comes Arafat's thugs....

They wanted their cut. Extortion.

When Mohammed could not give them what they wanted, he was accused of collaborating with Israel and tortured by having every rib in his body broken until he died.

Waheed has told me that he would kill Arafat if we would just drop him into the area with a hammer. He has also said many times that he loves the jewish people because they have always treated him right. Waheed is muslim, btw.

And almost every time Arafat is in the news I see this man cry.

You also mentioned in a previous post that the Early Church Fathers put this "poison" out there. I'd like to read for myself what they had to say. Can you provide me a list of which Church Fathers and where I can find that information.

http://www.yashanet.com/library/fathers.htm

[Guest charlie]

I don't think we should totally dismiss EVERYTHING someone says just because they're Arab or Palistinian. I know a lot of people in this country dismiss everything some people say when they find out the person talking is a Christian. Arabs probably dismiss everything an Israeli or a Jewish person says just because they're Israeli/Jewish. [edited to add: dismiss as in a political sense]

I also don't think we'll get any converts referring to people as "camel" people or "ragheads" (another one people like to use) etc. etc. Like you said earlier Yod, Jesus died for everybody. That means everybody.

edited to add: You know Yod, you brought up a good point when you said your Muslim acquaintance liked Jewish people. I think the Palistinian people and the Jewish people (all Israeli's btw) would get along just fine if it weren't for evil people in high places interjecting their evil deeds. I've seen many stories where the common people get along just fine. Also, didn't the Muslims, Jews, and Christians that lived in that area before 1948 get along very well together with few problems? I guess if we should be noticing one thing in all of this it is that Satan is bearing down hard. We just need to be very careful that we do not get caught in his snare.