Dinosaurs

[CellShade]

It sure is!! No, I thought you were an Aussie because you have a head made of rock! Very stubborn..... What's the go with evolution is fact? You haven't convinced me yet.....LNJ

Read the link, it's quite basic. And the great part is I don't need to convince you, because the ENTIRE scientific community has tested and accepts it as fact. It's a Theory and a Fact. READ THE LINK. HERE

Ignorance alert!

I remind you not all scientist are Athiest or whatever, and another ignorance alert, for conversation and reality's sake and for the sake that you don't look dumb ignorant and like lying, evolution is considerated a theory, not a fact, trust me, I've seen documentals and all, read a lot of pages like you have giveng, and most of them if not all agree evolution is a theory, not a fact! Is it too hard to admit that you believe in a theory, and not a proven fact?

No matter how many times I post up the definition of what makes a "theory" in science, and how something can simultaneously be a theory and considered a fact, it doesn't seem to sink in.

So I'll stop trying. Evolution is a theory and a fact. So is General Relativity. If anyone actually wants to know why, they can PM me, and I'll explain. More unfortunate, I expect very few PMs from this offer. People who are wilfully ignorant usually do not go out of their way to be educated.

Bread of Life,

I'm not wilfully ignorant at all. I actually try hard to hear views on alot of different subjects but I am not wilfully ignorant. With regard to evolution, even before I became a Follower of Christ Jesus, I thought the idea of mankind evolving from apes was so laughable. I even had an argument with my year 9 science teacher on that exact subject, at age 15. Even now, as an adult who has been around and heard alot, I refuse to accept evolution as fact simply because I don't believe what I've heard so far. Without all the scientific jargon, it's just plain stupid.....LNJ

Hi LNJ,

If you find evolution laughable, can you imagine how skeptics view the concept of 950-year-old people, talking snakes and donkeys, a "perfect" God that "repents" that he made man, Noah's Ark, with, minimally, the problem of feeding all the animals for 40 days, and numerous other illogicalities put forth in the Bible. How does that make sense to you but evolution doesn't?

We have God , He connects all the dots, does the impossible possible, and it makes sense.

Evolution meanwhile, a really fairly dumb and retarded theory, too much missings pieces, just a bunch of theories, they keep contradicting themself each time they create a new theory. Eventually, I think there might be a time, when they will finally conclude evolution is a dumb and retarded theory, which we christians knew from beginning, and they will start up with a new and even dumber theory, who knows, hey, maybe we decended from dolphins, or perphaps from dogs, no no, we eat meat, maybe we decend from tigers. And so on.

[Arjuous]

Ignorance alert!

I remind you not all scientist are Athiest or whatever, and another ignorance alert, for conversation and reality's sake and for the sake that you don't look dumb ignorant and like lying, evolution is considerated a theory, not a fact, trust me, I've seen documentals and all, read a lot of pages like you have giveng, and most of them if not all agree evolution is a theory, not a fact! Is it too hard to admit that you believe in a theory, and not a proven fact?

Like I've said, it's both, it's not being disputed. As for 'all scientists are not atheists,' I agree with that statement, and never said 'all scientists are atheists,' merely the majority of each nation's expert scientists, including the U.S.A. For the record, the fact of evolution and the theory of evolution are two seperate things, and the fact was established before the theory. The fact of evolution is the fact that we see and observe it everywhere. It's defined as the change in allele frequency in a population over time. Well what is an allele? An allele is one of two or more chromosomes that appear in the same place on a chromosome. A good way to think of an allele is like a type of flavor. So, for instance, in the gene of ice cream, there are many different flavors, or alleles, like chocolate or vanilla. Another example, let's say we were to take a hypothetical flower and find that a certain gene controls the color of the pedals. Somewhere along the line, because of pressure to adapt, there is a mutation and instead of, say, white pedals we get red pedals. That genetic change would be referred to as a change in allele. We can observe this anywhere, like measuring the amount of blue eyes in a given population over time, or red hair. So evolution, which basically means change, IS a fact, it occurs everywhere, and we're able to observe it.

So what then is evolutionary theory? First, what is a theory? It is NOT an educated guess, which most people associate it with. Rather, extensive scientific is needed long before a conceptual framework for the theory can be formed. Most importantly, a theory is the framework that science uses to explain already observed phenomena. In this case, the FACT of evolution gave way to evolutionary THEORY.

SO, FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME. EVOLUTION IS A FACT AND A THEORY.

We have God , He connects all the dots, does the impossible possible, and it makes sense.

Evidence?

Evolution meanwhile, a really fairly dumb and retarded theory, too much missings pieces, just a bunch of theories, they keep contradicting themself each time they create a new theory. Eventually, I think there might be a time, when they will finally conclude evolution is a dumb and retarded theory, which we christians knew from beginning, and they will start up with a new and even dumber theory, who knows, hey, maybe we decended from dolphins, or perphaps from dogs, no no, we eat meat, maybe we decend from tigers. And so on.

Hah!

Edited July 27, 2006 by Arjuous

[Guest lnj]

Ignorance alert!

I remind you not all scientist are Athiest or whatever, and another ignorance alert, for conversation and reality's sake and for the sake that you don't look dumb ignorant and like lying, evolution is considerated a theory, not a fact, trust me, I've seen documentals and all, read a lot of pages like you have giveng, and most of them if not all agree evolution is a theory, not a fact! Is it too hard to admit that you believe in a theory, and not a proven fact?

Like I've said, it's both, it's not being disputed. As for 'all scientists are not atheists,' I agree with that statement, and never said 'all scientists are atheists,' merely the majority of each nation's expert scientists, including the U.S.A. For the record, the fact of evolution and the theory of evolution are two seperate things, and the fact was established before the theory. The fact of evolution is the fact that we see and observe it everywhere. It's defined as the change in allele frequency in a population over time. Well what is an allele? An allele is one of two or more chromosomes that appear in the same place on a chromosome. A good way to think of an allele is like a type of flavor. So, for instance, in the gene of ice cream, there are many different flavors, or alleles, like chocolate or vanilla. Another example, let's say we were to take a hypothetical flower and find that a certain gene controls the color of the pedals. Somewhere along the line, because of pressure to adapt, there is a mutation and instead of, say, white pedals we get red pedals. That genetic change would be referred to as a change in allele. We can observe this anywhere, like measuring the amount of blue eyes in a given population over time, or red hair. So evolution, which basically means change, IS a fact, it occurs everywhere, and we're able to observe it.

So what then is evolutionary theory? First, what is a theory? It is NOT an educated guess, which most people associate it with. Rather, extensive scientific is needed long before a conceptual framework for the theory can be formed. Most importantly, a theory is the framework that science uses to explain already observed phenomena. In this case, the FACT of evolution gave way to evolutionary THEORY.

SO, FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME. EVOLUTION IS A FACT AND A THEORY.

We have God , He connects all the dots, does the impossible possible, and it makes sense.

Evidence?

Evolution meanwhile, a really fairly dumb and retarded theory, too much missings pieces, just a bunch of theories, they keep contradicting themself each time they create a new theory. Eventually, I think there might be a time, when they will finally conclude evolution is a dumb and retarded theory, which we christians knew from beginning, and they will start up with a new and even dumber theory, who knows, hey, maybe we decended from dolphins, or perphaps from dogs, no no, we eat meat, maybe we decend from tigers. And so on.

Hah!

Arjuous,

Like I said , there isn't any new information. The original genetic information is still there, through environmental adaptations we see varieties of a species, but it isn't any new information. What did the single cell organism evolve from? Stardust from the bigbang? LNJ

[Christian]

If you're going to discount evolution as a theory, you have to provide evidence against it, because as of right now, there is no positive evidence against evolution.

I never discounted that it is a "theory", just that it is not a fact!!!

You repeatedly hide behind your frustration and your inconclusive links in avoiding answering my questions...So I'll ask you one more time. My evidence against evolution is as it was stated.

"Where are the transitional fossils?, where are the remains of the gradations of lifeforms? Where is your missing link(s)"? THERE ARE NONE !!!

So you are left with a "THEORY", not a fact, and until you can show evidence of these things mentioned above, WITH NO EXCUSES.

[Arjuous]

If you're going to discount evolution as a theory, you have to provide evidence against it, because as of right now, there is no positive evidence against evolution.

I never discounted that it is a "theory", just that it is not a fact!!!

You repeatedly hide behind your frustration and your inconclusive links in avoiding answering my questions...So I'll ask you one more time. My evidence against evolution is as it was stated.

"Where are the transitional fossils?, where are the remains of the gradations of lifeforms? Where is your missing link(s)"? THERE ARE NONE !!!

So you are left with a "THEORY", not a fact, and until you can show evidence of these things mentioned above, WITH NO EXCUSES.

Did you even read my post? I literally JUST explained it. Transitional fossils are not necessary to prove evolution.

[Arjuous]

Like I said , there isn't any new information. The original genetic information is still there, through environmental adaptations we see varieties of a species, but it isn't any new information. What did the single cell organism evolve from? Stardust from the bigbang? LNJ

What do you mean by 'new information,' and where can you prove that the modern genetic information is the same as the original genetic information from 'Gods creation.'

"The original genetic information is still there, through environmental adaptations we see varieties of a species, but it isn't any new information. "

I'm not quite sure what it has to do with evolution. As I've explained, evolution is an observable fact, and by its very nature your proposition cannot be true. If evolution is true, then new genetic information is constantly forming from pressure to adapt, meaning that there is constantly newly emerging genes, therefor new 'genetic information' for evolution.

"What did the single cell organism evolve from? Stardust from the bigbang? LNJ

Irrelevant. Evolution, and I cannot assign this more importance, is based in BIOLOGY. The fact of evolution is something observed in Biology. And the theory of evolution is a BIOLOGICAL THEORY. What you're referring to, where life forms from non-life, called ABiogenesis, is something that Christians falsely associate with evolution. ABiogenesis is a bio-chemical theory, not a biological theory. Whatever caused life to emerge is not the concern of evolution, rather the concern is the study of life.

Edited July 27, 2006 by Arjuous

[Guest lnj]

Like I said , there isn't any new information. The original genetic information is still there, through environmental adaptations we see varieties of a species, but it isn't any new information. What did the single cell organism evolve from? Stardust from the bigbang? LNJ

What do you mean by 'new information,' and where can you prove that the modern genetic information is the same as the original genetic information from 'Gods creation.'

"The original genetic information is still there, through environmental adaptations we see varieties of a species, but it isn't any new information. "

I'm not quite sure what it has to do with evolution. As I've explained, evolution is an observable fact, and by its very nature your proposition cannot be true. If evolution is true, then new genetic information is constantly forming from pressure to adapt, meaning that there is constantly newly emerging genes, therefor new 'genetic information' for evolution.

"What did the single cell organism evolve from? Stardust from the bigbang? LNJ

Irrelevant. Evolution, and I cannot assign this more importance, is based in BIOLOGY. The fact of evolution is something observed in Biology. And the theory of evolution is a BIOLOGICAL THEORY. What you're referring to, where life forms from non-life, called ABiogenesis, is something that Christians falsely associate with evolution. ABiogenesis is a bio-chemical theory, not a biological theory. Whatever caused life to emerge is not the concern of evolution, rather the concern is the study of life.

Arjuous,

To quote you.." whatever caused life to emerge is not the concern of evolution, rather the concern is the study of life"....

Okay then, so for an evolutionist GOD COULD HAVE CAUSED LIFE to emerge, but that's not the issue, evolutionists are just interested in the changes. hmmm...

That somehow makes sense. I know some Christians who believe man descended from apes, and that's always puzzled me, since I believe the Genesis account. Now I think you've just shown me their reason why they think like that....Christian evolutionists. Now that's whacko!! LNJ

[Bread_of_Life]

Inj,

How's about defining what you mean by information. Information has a very specific scientific meaning, it even has a unit. Most people who talk about "informational" challenges to evolution just don't know what information really is, if they did, they would understand that getting information isn't the challenge to evolution, rather getting useful information.

But anyway, over to you, let us know how you define information, what your unit of information is, and how you plan to measure it?

Thanks,

Nikolai

[Guest lnj]

Inj,

How's about defining what you mean by information. Information has a very specific scientific meaning, it even has a unit. Most people who talk about "informational" challenges to evolution just don't know what information really is, if they did, they would understand that getting information isn't the challenge to evolution, rather getting useful information.

But anyway, over to you, let us know how you define information, what your unit of information is, and how you plan to measure it?

Thanks,

Nikolai

What I mean is the original genetic makeup is there. It hasn't changed. A cat is sill a cat eventhough there a differences in cats eg: no tail, long hair, etc , it is still a cat, no extreme changes like a cat having turned into a giraffe.LOL

Anyway, I don't claim to be any good at genetics, science, biology or even fully understand it but I like discussing it. LNJ

[sylvan3]

Hi LNJ,

If you find evolution laughable, can you imagine how skeptics view the concept of 950-year-old people, talking snakes and donkeys, a "perfect" God that "repents" that he made man, Noah's Ark, with, minimally, the problem of feeding all the animals for 40 days, and numerous other illogicalities put forth in the Bible. How does that make sense to you but evolution doesn't?

We have God , He connects all the dots, does the impossible possible, and it makes sense.

Evolution meanwhile, a really fairly dumb and retarded theory, too much missings pieces, just a bunch of theories, they keep contradicting themself each time they create a new theory. Eventually, I think there might be a time, when they will finally conclude evolution is a dumb and retarded theory, which we christians knew from beginning, and they will start up with a new and even dumber theory, who knows, hey, maybe we decended from dolphins, or perphaps from dogs, no no, we eat meat, maybe we decend from tigers. And so on.

Unfortunately, your sentence, "We have God , He connects all the dots, does the impossible possible, and it makes sense", doesn't make sense to me.

I see your concept of God as one of illogicality where he can do whatever he wants (e.g. violate logic, laws of science) and, because he is God, it makes sense to you. It doesn't to me. I'll go with science every time.