PLEASE HELP: Is church for everyone?

[David H.]

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Thats a pretty hard Scripture to get around..

So long as it's not quoted as a command. I know a lot of people quote it as if the Apostle Paul decided we needed a new commandment. I know of churches that think you're sinning if you break this commandment. To me that's all foolish legalism. Paul, if he wrote Hebrews, would certainly not be one to add more laws. So, it's advice to his followers. He's advising them to keep fellowshiping with each other because, as you say at the end, we need each other.

Still, I'm in a place where I'm not going to church right now because I found most of the relationships in my last church to be too superficial to invest time in. I left one fellowship to move to Hawaii, and only three people even said goodbye, and I had been their "leader," event planner, retreat speaker, board member, for years.

So, if God leads me to fellowship with specific people that come across my path in Hawaii, I certainly will. But it won't be God looking down on me if I don't (and I'm not implying the person quoted above feels that way); it will be other Christians who believe I'm breaking a sacred command because of their own legalism.

That's why I asked what church Jesus went to. I don't think people sat in pews and sang hymns and listened to sermons whenever they got together in synagogue. I'm not sure what they did; but I'll bet it was much different than churches (or synagogues) today. The fellowshiping that we are not to foresake can happen in other places than churches. I think my next church will be a pub. At least, the friendships will run deeper.

[Daymon]

This is not a trap. Just thought I'd ask.

Please know that I will not become angry or seek to verbally decapitate anyone.

I really want to know what your views are. I've had a very bad time trying to fit in to a church and my last church experience was very painful. I was thrown out. After I called a couple of Elders who never checked on me or my family (I'm married with 2 kids), they were quick to tell me that I'm a "weak Christian," "not a nice person" and "unfit for friendship." They also made it very clear to me how disappoimted they were in me.

I haven't been to church in a year and have no indication from God to go and seek a church in my town or elsewhere.

So, I ask you: is church for everyone? I don't think so. But I'm open to the feedback.

Could you imagine Jesus telling someone they can no longer be part of his church because they are weak and unfit for friendship? The bible says that Gods strength is made perfect in our weakness. Now this is just me, and I could be wrong, but maybe through your "weakness" God was able to do his work. It's possible he just didn't want you in that church at all. Since it bothers you enough to come here, and post the question, it makes me think God is stirring your heart (which as explained to me is the holy spirit at work). When you do find another church, you'll look back on this and see God's perfect plan

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, the church is for everyone!

[David H.]

...My experience has been very poor I'm afraid.

Pastor LJ informed me last summer that I could not rejoin the worship team because of poor attendance in the month of August, 2005. I

[David H.]

Jesus is the head of the church!

He might be the head of the Church, but did he go to church?

[Floatingaxe]

He taught in synogogues and in the byways and highways, and on the mount and in a boat and at a well and in the Upper Room.

[David H.]

He taught in synogogues and in the byways and highways, and on the mount and in a boat and at a well and in the Upper Room.

I know, but did he go to church?

Did he sit in pews and listen to ten minutes of announcements about the ladies' social and sing hymns then listen to an off-key choir, and then listen to the lady's trio give a special number, and then listen to a twenty-minute sermon by someone other than himself, and then sing more hymns, and .... Did he go to church? Because it's not going to THAT that is a sin according to many.

As for me and my house, if we go to that pub I mentioned on Sunday morning and have a cup of coffee as we talk with another Christian, we consider that we are not "foresaking fellowship." We're IN fellowship the whole time. What we're not in is pews. And what we're not doing is listening to the ladies' trio. But I don't recall Paul exhorting us to do those things. He just said don't foresake meeting together with fellow believers. Don't go it alone. He didn't say go someplace and get bored for an hour as you sit and stair at the stained glass. He didn't say, "Lead a 'worship team' and make sure your attendance is good!"

(Which is perfectly fine if you want to do any of those things; but Paul didn't command any of them or even encourage us to do them or to meet in any particular kind of building with any particular number of people. "Where two are three are gathered in my name, I am with them." That was said about "gathering," more than it was about prayer, though I think it was said in the context of prayer.)

[jesussaves]

He taught in synogogues and in the byways and highways, and on the mount and in a boat and at a well and in the Upper Room.

I know, but did he go to church?

Did he sit in pews and listen to ten minutes of announcements about the ladies' social and sing hymns then listen to an off-key choir, and then listen to the lady's trio give a special number, and then listen to a twenty-minute sermon by someone other than himself, and then sing more hymns, and .... Did he go to church? Because it's not going to THAT that is a sin according to many.

As for me and my house, if we go to that pub I mentioned on Sunday morning and have a cup of coffee as we talk with another Christian, we consider that we are not "foresaking fellowship." We're IN fellowship the whole time. What we're not in is pews. And what we're not doing is listening to the ladies' trio. But I don't recall Paul exhorting us to do those things. He just said don't foresake meeting together with fellow believers. Don't go it alone. He didn't say go someplace and get bored for an hour as you sit and stair at the stained glass. He didn't say, "Lead a 'worship team' and make sure your attendance is good!"

(Which is perfectly fine if you want to do any of those things; but Paul didn't command any of them or even encourage us to do them or to meet in any particular kind of building with any particular number of people. "Where two are three are gathered in my name, I am with them." That was said about "gathering," more than it was about prayer, though I think it was said in the context of prayer.)

I believe one of the most important things we as believers in the Lord Jesus can do is go to church. Jesus, the Chief Corner Stone, instituted the church. Ofcourse we all know that it is the "body of Christ" itself that is the church, not the building we gather in. However, that building we gather in, that house of prayer, that place where we can meet together with the Lord as His presence fills the house, that place where the oil flows from head to toe like the precious oil that ran down Aarons beard is where we are edified, built up and sent out. It is the place where the Father will often speak to His children through the prophetic word and encourage us in our struggles, correcting us in some areas where we may need it. His loving hand is ever over the church. Jesus sent the 120 to the upper room to be filled with power from on high, baptizing them in the Holy Ghost. He didn't tell them to all go home and wait, He told them to gather in one place together. Not just any place. It was a place where they could all worship together. Then they carried it to the streets. That is still what church is for. We gather together, being in one mind and one accord, worship the Lord in Spirit and Truth, allowing Him to fill us, anoint us, free us, build us so He can us as He will. The days are evil. We need to not only be in the house of the Lord often, but as part of the Body, we need to operate in the gift the Holy Ghost anoints us for. Every part of the Body is important else the Lord wouldn't have instituted it. Pastors, teachers, prophets, helpers...all working together to build up the Body. The Lord speaks to us through His word, in that still small voice and through pastors and prophets.

I have heard more than once things like, "I don't have to go to church to be saved." Well, I am reminded of the parable Jesus told about the ten virgins. There 5 wise and 5 foolish. The wise has extra oil for their lamps. The foolish slept and let their oil run out.

The book of Revelations has 7 churches the Lord speaks to through His word. He corrects us through His word. The church of Philadelphia (Revelations 3:7) has that extra oil. So, if perhaps someone says, "there are too many hipocrites in the church and that is why I don't go," we can look to the Bible for the reasons we should go. Read the book of Revelations. It will bless you!

"I was glad when they said to me , let us go to the house of the Lord." Psalm 122:1

[Anne]

Hey Failed Christian

It's me, .......you know the person who reminds you of hitler I'm only joking, so don't go verbally decapitating me

Firstly, from what i've read, the position the church took was out of line, but you and I know that this is not the fault of God.

If they thought your attendance at church was bad, they should take a look at mine, sometimes I spend so much time studying the Bible I forget that there is a world out there, folks here who have known me for the past two years can vouch for that, so I would say that is your first step, don't forsake God just because people did it to you.

It is fortunate that my pastor knows how much I enjoy the Bible, and how much I emerse myself in it, and if anything he encourages the drive which I have for the Bible, never would he turn me away from the church and he does send the odd message reminding me that i'm still welcome.

It is true that the Bible tells us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, and in an ideal world it would be wonderful to know that you would always be welcome within the local church, alas it doesn't always work that way.

FC, you know, I think that the best thing to do is pick up your Bible and have your own assembling, with your family, keep your family under God, He's not restricted to temple, churches and tabernacles, He'll come to your House if you ask.

Set time aside and worship God, alone or with your family, and meditate on Him. And sooner or later God will lead a church to you or you to the church.

But don't stop loving God because of this, please, He does not deserve it.

Blessing abundant upon you and your family in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ

Your sister in Christ Jesus

Anne

[David H.]

I believe one of the most important things we as believers in the Lord Jesus can do is go to church. Jesus, the Chief Corner Stone, instituted the church.

Not exactly. He didn't "institute" anything. He created the Church with a capital "C." That's not something you "go to." And it's not an institution. Its an entity, a living, breathing communal, spiritual, physcial creature. Jesus never even suggested we should "go to" church. We are a Church, collectively. Wherever we gather, there is the Church. It might be better if we didn't even use that word and staid with the word he used, which was "Kingdom."

I have nothing against houses of prayer and all that; but we were never instructed to go to them or join them, and it's no sin to stop.

That is still what church is for. We gather together

And we can do that anywhere on any day. It doesn't have to be on Saturday or Sunday morning. It doesn't have to be with an order of worship or a liturgy or in a building or with the same group of believers that we gathered with last time or under a set of rules or credes that we all agree to be bound by or in pews or with music. We are a Church, even when we meet communally on this web site. Not-so-"FailedChristian" is just as much a part of the Church in this forum or in a coffee house meeting with a single understanding Christian friend because we are not always

in one mind and one accord, worship[ing] the Lord in Spirit and Truth, allowing Him to fill us, anoint us, free us, build us so He can us as He will.

That clearly wasn't happening for Not-so-"FailedChristian where he/she was; so, one could say that Not-so-"FailedChristian" was not part of a Church even when in church because there was no meeting of the minds and hearts happening there, no sense of filling or freeing or being built up ... at least, not for not-so-"FailedChristian."

So, we don't need to be ...

in the house of the Lord often

or ever because the Lord does not dwell in houses anymore. That's not to say we cannot have an experience of him while in such places that may even be augmented by those places. I love the power of place; but if you never walked into such a place, it would not be a sin or even necessarily a bad thing.

Every part of the Body is important else the Lord wouldn't have instituted it.

It's that constant human drift toward "instituting" that I've grown a little tired of.

I have heard more than once things like, "I don't have to go to church to be saved." Well, I am reminded of the parable Jesus told about the ten virgins. There 5 wise and 5 foolish. The wise has extra oil for their lamps. The foolish slept and let their oil run out.

See how constantly we go back to saying "go to church," as if it is something we CAN go to. That's what institutionalizing tends to do. We say we know the church is not a building, and yet we talk about it as if it's something we can "go to." The Church is not even a meeting we can go to. It simply is "us." I know you know that, but our thoughts constantly drift toward thinking of the church as something we go to. So, if you don't go to it with regular attendance (going back to not-so-"FailedChristian"'s great failing), then we're failing to live as we should ... so the thinking goes when we think of the Church as something to go to, be it building or meeting.

The book of Revelations has 7 churches....

And those churches merely refer to the groups of Christians who lived in those cities, not to a particular meeting that needed to be attended or a particular gathering that happened on a regular basis in a particular place. It was just the people of that place. And Paul instructed the people of any place to get together with each other -- but not necessarily in any kind of formal meeting ... just get together to support each other ... however that might happen. Maybe in a game of golf. Maybe on the beach. Get together and talk about your lives and talk about Jesus and ... live your lives together in mutual support. Maybe for not-so-"FailedChristian," this forum is it for the time. Then maybe it'll just be a family prayer time or a friend over a cup of coffee. Maybe it'll be real simple for a long time; but even if it's not with an institutional body (like a congregation with a covenant or a constitution or bylaws), it's still living as "part of" the Church, v. "going to" church.

Edited August 10, 2006 by David Haggith