PLEASE HELP: Is church for everyone?

[Guest sjet]

[Guest sjet]

FC, Iknow ending it all seems like the best solution byt the devil is a liar and the father of all lies. That voice seems reasonable and sounds like it is comming from within. It is comming from without. The devil had be convinced the only way out of a situation was to take my own life. In desperation, I cried out to God and He heard my cry. He opened my eyes.

I saw the thing for what it was. The truth will set you free. Praying for you my brother.

[Candi770]

FailedChristian,

I think we should fellowship with other believers. Does it have to be in a building called a church-no. I believe where 2-3 believers are-God can show up-just as well in that place as in a church building. But God is not limited to a church building. The modern western society church is nothing like the very first church. I deal with the same thing. I'd much rather come together in a home based church than a large church. Unless you are lead by the Holy Spirit to a particular church-why worry. I hate undue pressure people place on others to go to church. I've heard of, in the past, when bibles were smuggled into china, that these people would tear them apart and would share with each other. The Holy Spirit would wake these people up and tell them to go out to a field. These people found that there were all being led by the Holy Spirit to have church(2am in the morning). Thats church-thats awesome!

We should not forsake assembling with other believers-it's amazing the what the Lord does in prayer alone in a corporate setting in comparison with being alone at home. I'm currently looking for a church- would prefer home based.

Blessings

candi

[redeemed098]

FC,

Not to even attempt to be pointing fingers at all, but no one gets shown the door for no good reason. Why do I get the sense that you are not telling us everything..?????

I am in a valley of struggle at the moment myself. I have made the decision myself to stand down from the worship team in which I have been playing drums and singing for the past two and a half years. Due to my battles with sin in my life and my constant failure to find success or victory in those areas, I came to the conclusion that my heart is NOT right with God and I cannot offer him LESS than he deserves, let alone my brothers and sisters in the Lord. I feel much like I would expect a back-slider to feel as I have never before back-slidden in the eight years that I have been saved, this is NEW territory for me and a time of great confusion. There is NO simple answer and NO simple solution regardless of what any man might say. I have to go where I need to go, though I wont neccessarily understand any of it. Though IN this valley, I cannot for the life of me figure out WHY, but just as in Psalm 23 "HE is with me."

I could go on about my own circumstances to give you a greater picture of what is happening in MY life, but right now I simply want to share with you how encouraging, prayerful and supportive my brothers and sisters are being right now. I really AM beginning to understand the concept of FAMILY through my brothers and sisters. I have tried to renounce my faith to make the confusion go away, and I have even contemplated walking away from the church, from God and from EVERYTHING. I have not endured a battle like this since I was first saved. I feel UNworthy, dirty and completely UNderserving of one Minute of Gods Love for me, yet I open my email tonight and one of my sisters has sent me a song the Lord placed on her heart for me that I have to admit in all my rebellious attitude of heart made a few tears roll out. Its a song by Ray Boltz called "I think I see Gold." She told me that she believed this was God singing to ME in the midst of my circumstances.....In the middle of valley of the shadow of death.

I cannot for one second comprehend how in all of my UNcleanness, my God can see Gold, yet he can. I had another sister acknowledge that in my absense she sensed that someone wasnt taking THEIR place, that person being ME. She doesnt even KNOW me as she is only new in the Lord. The Lord has shown her many things due to her incredible hunger for God. One of these things she shared NOT with ME, but with another sister and this was that she was strategically placed in the congregation with other people all around her, people that God has also strategically placed just as an army military intelligence man places HIS men.

This woman spoke and said, "Where is Ben..? I havent seen him lately. He must return and take up his position." Completely out of the blue. You see it isnt possible to be a part of the WHOLE body if you arent THERE.. You are like a finger or an eye that is missing from the body. It CAN function, but not as well as a whole body completely united with itself.

I had a brother phone me especially to inform me that what I am going through is NOT a defeat though I may be perceiving it as a defeat and it may feel like a defeat....He told me that Jesus died two thousand years ago and won the victory....He wanted me to know that THIS time or season that I am going through is all part of the VICTORY.....Though it may FEEL like defeat.

I will stop now FC. I simply want you to know that I have been trying my absolute best to walk away from everything and Im not really an over emotional person, so I place NO< emphasis on who I am as a person or point any fingers toward being deserving on ANYTHING....Yet look at the tower of strength my prayerful and faithful brothers and sisters in Christ are being right now. I dont know how or why anyone would continue to fight for me when I have NO fight left, but I must thank the Lord for THEIR faithfulness. I wont get into a he said she said kind of discussion, I will simply say this to you. EVERYTHING is an opportunity to grow, and NEVER is our fight against the flesh and blood. It is NEVER against the flesh and blood. Never against people...It is against the powers and principalities and the forces of evil in the heavenly realm......You are being tested.....As indeed we all are. If an issue arises and you leave as a result of this issue, it will come again and again, no matter how many churches you try to find peace in. You see God doesnt live in temples built by human hands. He doesnt live in the building....He Lives in his people. YOU are the temple he lives in..If you are a Born Again believer in the Lord Jesus Christ..Dont LOOK for him in the church...Take him IN there with you. Nothing will ever change EXTERNALLY if you do not allow him to change YOU internally....

"Peter, satan himself has asked to sift you." Jesus said this himself. He also said that if the seed does not fall on good soil, then when the testing times come they will fall away. I am in a testing time and YOU are in a testing time. I can only right now hold to the words of the song I just listened to.

Don't give up,

Don't give in,

Don't stop now,

I think I see Gold.

God grows us often in ways that we would never choose to endure if we had the choice to walk away. He must grow in us the fruits that will teach us how to love the UNlovely. Not religious love, but the REAL love of Christ himself.

Often we walk or run away from opportunity to grow. Part of the lesson I guess is to realise that its ALL part of the VICTORY as, "there is Therefore now NO condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus."

I've got a lot of growing to do FC, but part of that growth must be the realisation that there is NO FAILURE in Christ...Only growth.

The Journey continues on the road to glory. I must thank the Lord that he has promised to Lead me there and that he will finish what he started, for he IS the author and the finisher of my faith.

Regards,

Ben.

[Floatingaxe]

Ohhhh, Ben! Every word..... Amen, brother, amen!

[Candi770]

FailedChristian,

I went back and read your exit letter.

Wow, You exit letter was excellent. They didn't want you on worship team after you had such a lively benefit to help a family-wow!! You were not shaken out-God was shaking them when you were there!! And he is not finished!!! They were not equiped to deal with the hurting? So they were a social club then-right? Has God called you to those who are hurting and is he teaching you in that respect. Everything we go through is not in vain-God can use that for the kingdom of God. It seems-my opinion only-that the church had a saul spirit and can't stand for anyone who is called of God to serve(not called of man). Totally under a religious spirit.

I still wouldn't take it personal. That church wasn't ready for change-but God will still shake it regardless!!! There are churches out there that recognize the anointing that are on christians-I wouldn't be surprised if the Lord calls you to ministry to the hurting. As the Lord leads, the Lord can use you right where you are-who needs church to minister. I just wouldn't put it under "I got hurt in church and if you got hurt club". I believe you may be called to the true hurting that may not want to grace the pews of a church. This is not just happening to you and your family-this is going on alott. Sometimes the Lord deals with me to stay in churches under the pressure of what you experienced and pray, intercede for the church. I don't know if it was you I told in another thread about my prayer partner propheticly telling a wayward pastor that God was going to do some pruning-she said something about pruning a branch-at the same time she said that this branch came crashing down-the preacher saw it and went white. Boy did he get the point-but he didn't take the hint. He ended up in the end losing the church because he was lead by the click and not the Holy Spirit. In the end, the Lord told my Prayer Partner to go visit this man later, and the Lord blessed her with a large sum of money from someone visiting this preachers house and boy did the jealousy flare-everyone decided to go out to eat-but the preacher put up a fit that he wouldn't go if she showed up-I wonder why-saul?? The lord provided money for her education!! God is so good. And God was good in providing for that poor family that lost their house-through your benefit for them!

Still seek the Lord as to what he wants you to learn from the church problem. Forgive them and go on. Don't let this taint your experience at the next church. You can visit churches without making a commitment-then you will have time to discern if the church is the one the Lord wants you at. I used to make a big deal about "serving" in church and found it is not necessary-and I will not "serve" unless I truely hear from God about it-regardless of pressure from others. We serve God not man!! But if he plants us in a church we have to submit to those in authority over us (this is easy if they are called of God and are fully submitted to God).

Blessings

candi

[David H.]

Church is for believers; all believers.

Not quite. "Church" IS all believers. When we say the church is FOR all believers. We're saying it is something they can join or not join. It's something that's good for them. No. Church IS them.

Fellowship is for believers. It's good for all believers. But it doesn't have to happen in what we've limited "the church" to mean. We talk about the assembly of believers, and we think of a congregation of believers in some building someplace. The church is wherever two are gathered in his name. So, going to church (small "c") is not for all believers. Fellowship of some kind is, but the expression of fellowship we choose is infinite in expresion and may change with time and circumstance. No one need ever feel guilty or like a "failed Christian" for not "going to" church. (Not that Marnie was suggesting anyone should feel guilty.) In fact, they're not guilty of anything, even if they are not in fellowship. It's just that being in fellowship is important for all of us, for Christ's Spirit dwells in community; but that can be a community of two. When the institution of church has failed, it may be better for us to meet for coffee and prayer with a believing friend.

Not-so-"Failed Christian," I pray that you're able to find a new expression of fellowship that helps lift you through your present times. Allow creativity to bring about new kind of fellowship for you, and feel guilty (if you do) ABOUT NOTHING when it comes to fellowship.

By the way, that was a wonderfully expressive letter you wrote to your pastor/"church."

[David H.]

Jesus is the head of the church!

He might be the head of the Church, but did he go to church?

that's the most absurd thing I ever read here, and that's saying something! Of course He did NOT, He hadn't established the Church until He ascended on high and sent the Holy Spirit--Acts 2. Dang...this is Theology 101 here, for Pete's sake!

You would think so, and, yet, look at how easily people drift into talking about "church" as something you go to. So, theology 101 is apparently needed. I drift easily into talking that way, too. Jesus didn't "go to church" because church isn't something you go to. It's something you are. To be precise, something you're a part of.

[David H.]

Don't let bitterness from your discipline keep you from assembling with other believers.

And, not-so-"FailedChristian," I hope you won't let legalism tell you HOW you should be assembling with other believers or even demanding that you do.

Seek them out, asking God to direct you.

That's good. If you broaden your horizons, not-so-"FailedChristian," you may find that he has a new expression of fellowship available for you to be a part of. It may be very different than anything we think of when we think of going to church.

Be faithful as is required.

And let no one tell you that fellowship is required, as if it's some sort of command. Fellowship is encouraged as a good thing for your health. But Paul was not writing a new commandment. He, of all people, knew the law was finished, and that God had no intention of adding new laws that we should feel guilty of breaking. So, fellowship is not a command; it's just a good thing that we should try to have in our lives. We need for our spiritual health and mental and physical health to be in community with other believers ... somehow. But no one has failed who is not in community. The community you were a part of failed you because ...

If you were disciplined because of unfaithful attendance in ministry, that is their prerogative to do so.

And it was your perogative to leave their ministry forever if you felt they were being too legalistic about attendance. And probably very good that you did. Now, you can keep your eyes open (if you so choose) for a much less legalistic and much more caring group.

In my church, if one is in ministry such as worship, attendance is very high on the list of importance.

Any group can set its own rules of engagment; but anyone is free to leave that group and does not sin if he or she does leave the group. If the rules of engagement are overly strict, I would encourage anyone to find the freedom to leave and seek a less legalistic group.

One could be set aside in their ministry for such a thing as spotty attendance...it reveals a heart issue.

Or maybe it reveals a family that has problems that interfere with attendance. Or anything else. It could well be a heart issue, but it's not an issue of a bad heart. Maybe just a failing or troubled heart that is not finding any joy in being part of such a legalistic group. It's time for that heart to move on. The group may have been good for it for awhile; but it no longer suits the journey nor even understands the journey you're on; so ...

Being faithful is good! Learn and move on.

Exactly. Be free to move on. You have always had that freedom. Some "churches" use attendance as a way to control you and as a way to judge your holiness. Let no one judge you by such outward things that are not required by God. Do as you feel your spirit needs to do. You have that freedom. Anyone who judges you by your attendance is too small to deserve your fellowship. (It's fair for a group to expect attendance if their leaning on you for your role in that ministry and not attending throws a burden on them; but its also fair for you to move on from them if you are not able or inclined to stay with those rules of engagement. What isn't fair is for them to treat you as if you are in some sort of sin for not being there. Patent nonsense. Don't buy into it.)

[David H.]

FailedChristian,

I think we should fellowship with other believers. Does it have to be in a building called a church-no. I believe where 2-3 believers are-God can show up-just as well in that place as in a church building. But God is not limited to a church building. The modern western society church is nothing like the very first church. I deal with the same thing. I'd much rather come together in a home based church than a large church. Unless you are lead by the Holy Spirit to a particular church-why worry. I hate undue pressure people place on others to go to church. I've heard of, in the past, when bibles were smuggled into china, that these people would tear them apart and would share with each other. The Holy Spirit would wake these people up and tell them to go out to a field. These people found that there were all being led by the Holy Spirit to have church(2am in the morning). Thats church-thats awesome!

We should not forsake assembling with other believers-it's amazing the what the Lord does in prayer alone in a corporate setting in comparison with being alone at home. I'm currently looking for a church- would prefer home based.

Blessings

candi

Yeah. That's cool!