PLEASE HELP: Is church for everyone?

[LightofJesus]

Jesus is the head of the church!

He might be the head of the Church, but did he go to church?

that's the most absurd thing I ever read here, and that's saying something! Of course He did NOT, He hadn't established the Church until He ascended on high and sent the Holy Spirit--Acts 2. Dang...this is Theology 101 here, for Pete's sake!

That is not what Peter said. "Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.' Jesus replied, 'Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of death will not overcome it.'" Matthew 16:16-19 Thus the Messiah's church was established on it's foundation.

It was the revelation of who Jesus was that He was building His Church on !!!

[billie]

Jesus is the head of the church!

He might be the head of the Church, but did he go to church?

that's the most absurd thing I ever read here, and that's saying something! Of course He did NOT, He hadn't established the Church until He ascended on high and sent the Holy Spirit--Acts 2. Dang...this is Theology 101 here, for Pete's sake!

That is not what Peter said. "Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.' Jesus replied, 'Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of death will not overcome it.'" Matthew 16:16-19 Thus the Messiah's church was established on it's foundation.

It was the revelation of who Jesus was that He was building His Church on !!!

Yes, LOJ, that's right...

[Observer of dreams]

Church is not for those who do not want it, and is for those that do. So therefore church is not for everyone.

[LightofJesus]

Church is not for those who do not want it, and is for those that do. So therefore church is not for everyone.

We are the church so if Jesus died for everyone then the church is for everyone WE ARE THE CHURCH it is not a building or place we visit we are the church the light of Jesus and the salt of the earth. I like to call it the gathering place. I have come to an understanding I guess of who we are and I now cannot handle being called a building!! No pun intended but that is what we are saying, really.

[David H.]

I now cannot handle being called a building!

Maybe it would be helpful if we used the "community of believers" or just "believers" or "saints," instead of using the word "Church" with a capital "C" when we're talking about the "body of Christ.

And use the word "fellowship" when we're talking about an assembly of believers. You can't leave the Church -- the community of believers -- except by rejecting Jesus. (Some, of course, would say you can't even do that.) Either way, there's no point in talking about someone not being in Church. If you're a believer, you're in the Church -- the universal community of believers.

Fellowship, on the other hand, is something we go in and out of during different phases of our lives. Such as, we make a move, and we may find ourselves with no place for fellowship for awhile -- no group to interact with. We're sick and nobody comes to be with us; so we cannot fellowship. We're burned out from a very bad fellowship experience, and so we're going to be real slow about getting back in the water so as not to get burned again ... and we have some things to sort out in order to make sure we don't repeat the mistake of joining a group like the last one. Or we decide to become a hermit monk for a year to learn some things in solitude. Some have chosen that path for a lifetime and have still lived venerable lives of service to others, such as producing very helpful writings.

Fellowship is not commanded, so it's no sin to be out of it. It's just a very good thing to be in if you can find good fellowship to be a part of because believers are meant to live in community, hermit monks non withstanding. Fellowship is a terrible thing to be in when you're with a group that seeks to control its members or that legalistically measures your spirituatilty by how regularly you attend. It can be very damaging. I hope not-so-"FailedChristian" finds some solace in knowing that he/she may have made a very good choice in moving out of a bad fellowship and that his or her caution in considering any other fellowship right away is probably wise. Find someone to have coffee with on a regular basis (or whatever works for you), and let the dust settle for awhile. (Preferably NOT someone who will try to drag you back into the group you just left; but a new start, a space for a breather.)

Edited August 11, 2006 by David Haggith

[Anne]

Just checking in on you FC, hope you and your family are well, praying and thinking of you all.

God Bless you

Anne

[redeemed098]

I'm sorry but I have to throw my hat into the ring here....! If God is trying to grow us in the fruits of the spirit, how is he supposed to do that when at every slight test, you Leave...? Have you ever stopped to wonder how a church will ever change if all people do is keep leaving all the time....? I hear the same story all of the time.

Let me tell you about the woman who had been married seven times and at a session of counselling for her seventh divorce, she spoke of how awful her husbands had been and how she never seemed to be able to pick the RIGHT man. On hearing this statement the counsellor using his vast experience as a counsellor opened her eyes by stating one simple point.....

You have been in seven failed relationships now and you will probably have better luck in the eighth, and maybe you wont. But there is something here that you have glossed over, whether it is deliberate or through simple ignorance. There is a hard truth you must hear.

In ALL of your seven failed relationships there is and has only ever BEEN one common denominator.....YOU..!!

Often we are the last to see our own problems. I guess this is why Jesus said that it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, but what comes out of the man, for out of the heart the mouth speaks. We can give up smoking, alcohol, and all kinds of EXternal substances quite easily because they are what goes INTO a man. It is what is inside a mans heart however that causes the REAL bitterness and unforgiveness. The issues that he does NOT want to deal with, nor does he know HOW to...These are what makes him unclean, bitter and UNforgiving. These are what he needs to be set free from.

If all he wants to do is seek to focus on the flaws of others, he will never have to look upon himself. Jesus was very wise when he revealed that it isnt what goes INTO a man that makes him Unclean. It isnt food or drink because they simply pass through the body. Its what has happened to us in the past that we have locked away in the basement in the hope that we will never have to deal with it again..Perhaps we've even convinced ourselves that it never happened or even tried to become another person in order to deal with it.

Jesus wants to set us free. He wants to give us a new heart and a new spirit because he knows how badly damaged our hearts and spirits can BE. That is why he says, "Come to me you who are weary and heavy ladened and I will give you rest." He whom the son sets free is free indeed.That means inside AND out.

Often leaving a church or having an opinion about the church can simply be a smoke screen for the REAL issue. Growing HURTS so its often easier to RUN away. And it feels just a little bit better when you can gather around yourself people who can sympathise with you.

Can I please post an excerpt from a letter written in 1891 by a man who was relating some of the growing pains of the early church fathers. From the Roman Popery to the Protesters or early reformers (Protestants.) He spoke well about how our true attitude OUGH to be toward the church. His name is J.C Ryle. He is speaking of events that troubled the church in the 1500's. You see, even back then the church had issues. Nothing has changed people.

Men may call me an alarmist, if they like, for using such language. But I reply, there is a cause. The upper classes in this land are widely infected with a taste for a sensuous, histrionic, formal religion. The lower orders are becoming sadly familiarised with all the ceremonialism which is the stepping-stone to Popery.

The middle classes are becoming disgusted with the Church of England, and asking what is the use of it. The intellectual classes are finding out that all religions are either equally good or equally bad. The House of Commons will do nothing unless pressed by public opinion. We have no Pums or Hampdens there now.-And all this time Ritualism grows and spreads. The ship is among breakers,-breakers ahead and breakers astern,-breakers on the right hand and breakers on the left. Something needs to be done, if we are to escape shipwreck.

The very life of the Church of England is at stake, and nothing less. Take away the Gospel from a Church and that Church is not worth preserving. A well without water, a scabbard without a sword, a steam engine without a fire, a ship without compass and rudder, a watch without a mainspring, a stuffed carcase with-out life,~11 these are useless things. But there is nothing so use-less as a Church without the Gospel. And this is the very question that stares us in the face.-Is the Church of England to retain the Gospel or not? Without it in vain shall we turn to our arch-bishops and bishops, in vain shall we glory in our cathedrals and parish churches. Ichabod will soon be written on our walls. The ark of God will not be with us. Surely something ought to be done.

One thing, however, is very clear to my mind. We ought not lightly to forsake the Church of England. No I so long as her Articles and Formularies remain unaltered, unrepealed, and unchanged, so long we ought not to forsake her. Cowardly and base is that seaman who launches the boat and forsakes the ship so long as there is a chance of saving her. Cowardly, I say, is that Protestant Churchman who talks of seceding because things on board our Church are at present out of order. What though some of the crew are traitors, and some are asleep I What though the old ship has some leaks, and her rigging has given way in some places! Still I maintain there is much to be done. There is life in the old ship yet. The great Pilot has not yet forsaken her. The compass of the Bible is still on deck. There are yet left on board some faithful and able seamen. So long as the Articles and Formularies are not Romanized, let us stick by the ship. So long as she has Christ and the Bible, let us stand by her to the last plank, nail our colours to the mast, and never haul them down. Once more, I say, let us not be wheedled, or bullied, or frightened, or cajoled, or provoked, into forsaking the Church of England.

In the name of the Lord let us set up our banners. If ever we would meet Ridley and Latimer and Hooper in another world without shame, let us "contend earnestly" for the truths which they died to preserve. The Church of England expects every Protestant Churchman to do his duty. Let us not talk only, but act. Let us not act only, but pray. "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."

I don't think anything more needs to be said...!

Regards,

Ben.

[David H.]

I don't think anything more needs to be said...!

I do, but I'll keep it short this time.

Maybe not-so-"FailedChristian" does have some personality areas to work on (and maybe not); but is it so inconceivable that staying in this church just might not have ever been a good thing? Some churches are better if they do die because they're not going to be improved because they're self-righteous to the point where they cannot even see their need for improvement. They're going to keep hurting people. I've seen some churches die where I'm glad they're gone. The massive pain they were inflicting on their surrounding community through their cult-like behavior is gone now, and the community has somewhat healed. But it will never heal completely. There are people who were part of those churches that are still hurting over the awful things that happened to them. When a church goes bad, it can be real bad; and it's not not-so-"FailedChristian's" burden to save it from itself. They asked nsFC to leave, and nsFC is better off to be free.

I hate to see people slapped around just because they left a lousy church. Maybe Jesus should have staid in the temple and tried to reform the Pharisees, instead of storming out because they were so far beyond hope of improvement.

[Salida]

This is not a trap. Just thought I'd ask.

Please know that I will not become angry or seek to verbally decapitate anyone.

I really want to know what your views are. I've had a very bad time trying to fit in to a church and my last church experience was very painful. I was thrown out. After I called a couple of Elders who never checked on me or my family (I'm married with 2 kids), they were quick to tell me that I'm a "weak Christian," "not a nice person" and "unfit for friendship." They also made it very clear to me how disappoimted they were in me.

I haven't been to church in a year and have no indication from God to go and seek a church in my town or elsewhere.

So, I ask you: is church for everyone? I don't think so. But I'm open to the feedback.

The scriptures say it is important to "assemble yourselfs together" and have fellowship with one another. Did these church members try to explain why they thought such things? According to what you have described they didn't seem very loving. How can they say the terms that your not a nice person or unfit for friendship?

There many other churches out there and I would try to find a different one that are filled with the Holy Spirit and demonstrate the love of God. Christian fellowship is very important in this unchristian world - it will strengthen you spiritually.

[Marnie]

Jesus is the head of the church!

He might be the head of the Church, but did he go to church?

that's the most absurd thing I ever read here, and that's saying something! Of course He did NOT, He hadn't established the Church until He ascended on high and sent the Holy Spirit--Acts 2. Dang...this is Theology 101 here, for Pete's sake!

That is not what Peter said. "Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.' Jesus replied, 'Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of death will not overcome it.'" Matthew 16:16-19 Thus the Messiah's church was established on it's foundation.

Read the text. The foundation was Peter's confession. "You are Christ..." etc. The foundation of the Church is the confessional statement of Peter. Flesh and blood didnt reveal that to Peter. As far as we know, Peter was the very first person to say such words.