redeemed098 Posted August 14, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 489 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/12/1964 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Redemed098: I'm replying in regards to post #38. I'm going to make guesses. First you either had someone in your life most likely with OCD or anxiety who really preached. Or you had a minister that told you about hell at a young age. Or your view of the world is full of negativity before you ever heard of hell. Then you went wow that fits right in. Have you noticed hell is being removed from the bible? It was first introduced in 1611 in the KJV now today is being removed. Do you know why the KJV is the favorite bible by most people? It's not because of accuracy by all means it written in a old style of english so it's not simplicity either. KJV is actually easist of all the bibles to minipulate. It can be bent to confirm to people errors the easist. Scholars see this so they keep re-writting the bible. They also saw the error in hell translation so now Hell is being removed from the bible too. Go back to the greek roots (hebrew to if you wish) and find out the translations on "hell, hades, forever and ever, eternal. And how it came about at the time of the writting of the KJV. Heres one you can pick up right off the bat. (Forever and ever) is not even in the english language. The writers made it up. It's like irregardless. It's actually regardless. Someone made up irregardless. Anyway the only translation that came close out of the bunch according to greek manuscripts was hades. Even then it wasn't bang on. But pretty close. Sugar coating the name doesnt alter the consequence dood.....Hell, Hades, Gehenna, call it what ever you like....You cannot alter what is inside the jar simply by changing the label on the outside..Even though you might like to.. I was saved at the age of 34 years in 1998 dood.... Your "guesses" I find intriguing....Since I have been saved I HAVE worked with people with phsychiatric illnesses and Ive been on short term missions overseas to share the gospel......The first I heard of HELL dood was what I read in the bible after I was saved. As far as the world being an evil place, that is stating the obvious. I had no one preach to me when I was young at all. I was raised a mormon as child until the age of around 9-10 years old. Until I was saved in 1998 I followed NO religion. I dont claim to know who you are as a person dood, all I have to go by and respond to is your words...It is the same with me...You dont know who I am as a person either dood. So please dont try to guess. If you dont like the word hell or the thought of hell, as I said previously...that is a good thing. You arent supposed to. You cannot trivialise this issue or try to sugar coat it by targetting those who speak to you about it.... You need to respond to God..Not US..We arent the ones who have the power or the authority to throw you into hell...We can only tell you that it is the very real consequence that exists for those who remain in their sin. Regards, Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 14, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Bait and hook? Are you a Christian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted August 14, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Well I wonder what "weeping and gnashing of teeth" means? It is not made up or somehow misinterpreted. They are Christ's own words, and we could go on in the descriptions. But if you believe people die, if you believe that they die eternally, you already believe in hell. Christ is the only way to be rescued from death, the rot and the blackness of never knowing eternal love, never being remembered, being totally annihilated, as that is what death means, for us and for our world, and that is what happens to this world without Christ, which is hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 14, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Well I wonder what "weeping and gnashing of teeth" means? It is not made up or somehow misinterpreted. They are Christ's own words, and we could go on in the descriptions. But if you believe people die, if you believe that they die eternally, you already believe in hell. Christ is the only way to be rescued from death, the rot and the blackness of never knowing eternal love, never being remembered, being totally annihilated, as that is what death means, for us and for our world, and that is what happens to this world without Christ, which is hell. Smalcald: Where I'm striking up these debates are from a couple of sources. #1 Is I have researched deeply into bible, to a certain degree greek texts, I have studied, cult behaviour, I have studied depression, Obsessive compulsive disorders, the effects of both narcotics, anti-depressants and nicotine on the brain. I have studied cognitive therapy along with customer service. Let me say, I do believe in a christ. I do wish no one would ever have to die. I do wish everyone had perfectly happy lives with no worries ever. I also reconize this is ideal, reality is different. So instead of keeping my fingers crossed and jumping around from belief to belief and awaiting a rapture or some kind of mystical event. I choose to ask where these beliefs come from. Then I research them. From my research I have found that a number of them are indeed false. I see people praying for the Lord to come. They prep and prep themselves arming themselves with scripture for this one holy moment. All the while I'm asking the question. This is ideal, I agree. But if it hasn't happened yet what did we as a person and/or society miss? Commonly the next answer from a person awaiting the return is, well not enough bad events have happened yet. So I ask why? Now ask a few different people who are awaiting the return of the lord why they believe this to be true and bam! You'll see a lot of different and odd answers and you will find one thing in common with them all. They often view everything as bad and very very often suffer from depression. All the meanwhile it's being done in the name of the LORD or being done in the name of what is righteous and holy. One of the questions you ask here bears a striking resemblence to a question we were told in the Bible people would ask. Where is the great coming of the Lord? For from the time of our ancestors, things have been the same as they always have. He said only the Father knows the day or the hour. He said that for a reason, not to confuse us, but to let us know that knowing when He's coming isn't important. Our jobs as Christians are loving God, loving our neighbor, and preaching the Gospel. That's what we should be focusing on, not when He's coming back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted August 14, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Hey Dood, Well I know what you mean to some extent. If our whole effort in life is waiting around for the "magic moment of the rapture", and being miserable until that time comes, that is a problem, and indeed it is not even what Christ taught. But Christians should have a hope and a peace inside of them now part of that hope is a patient waiting no doubt, but also part of that peace is the present reality of Christ in their hearts and in the Sacraments. I am not saying all of the time, nor am I saying that their lives will be great from a material or worldly perspective, but they should show a joy, peace and hope that comes with the Holy Spirit. Without that something is wrong. What does the Gospel of Luke say about this present reality of Christ (as opposed to only a future reality)? What is the Kingdom of God? The Gospel of Luke says that the "Kingdom of God is living joyously in the Holy Spirit", this happens today, we experience some of this, it is about living now. But there are cults out there, who misuse the name of Christ, and indeed they are false prophets and they do use power and control. They have all of the typical signs, separation from family, total fidelity to a human leader, sleep deprivation, not letting people read the scriptures for themselves, leadership with special privileges which go against scripture, no open discussion, being the ONLY right way to Christ among all of the billions of Christians, usually a denial of the Creeds, and yes fear. I hope you find a more positive bunch of people who love Jesus and their neighbors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeemed098 Posted August 15, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 489 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/12/1964 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Hey dood, You want to see weeping and gnashing of teeth...Go visit a high security forensic psyche ward.....It'll scare the "hell" out of you. I HOPE.....!!! I also have a scriptural answer for your question on why Jesus waited 4000 years..... "For there is ONE God and ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himSELF as a ransom for all men--THE TESTIMONY GIVEN IN ITS PROPER TIME." Properly appointed time dood...Perfect time....Jesus came at Just the RIGHT time. You see men had slowly but surely diluted their spiritual wine to the point that it had become simply water. They had completely neglected the Laws of God and were offering LESS than appropriate sacrifices...They had gone right off the rails so to speak.... Jesus came at the perfectly appointed time and turned the WATER, back into WINE.....Not just any old wine though...NEW and BETTER wine....A NEW and BETTER covenant than the first...I think the groom of the wedding where Jesus turned the water into wine said it best. "Usually when everyone is to drunk to realise, they bring the cheap stuff out and rip us off...But YOU saved the BEST for LAST." (Paraphrased of course..) Jesus came at a time when the world was totally and completely LOST and his second coming will be in the same circumstances.. The longer he takes in his coming dood, the more people have opportunity to get saved... Get saved.....Youre running out of time... You can run around whinging and complaining all you like dood...If you dont get under the covering of the blood of Christ then just as in the time of the plagues of Egypt, those who did not take heed, found out the hard way..Just as in the time of the flood, the people didnt realise the severity of their circumstance until the water was neck high. Have you heard the saying, "Come Hell or High Water.." I'm certain you have..! You have a choice dood......Listen and take warning.. Youre saved by grace dood or not at all...Gods Mercy always precedes his Perfect Judgement...Today is the day of salvation dood because no one can promise you that there will be a tomorrow. For as long as you see the sun rising in the east and setting in the west, you will KNOW that God is in control. One day the sun will no Longer rise and set. God has promised us that.....So get saved, while the day is still light.. dood, would you like a history lesson on your nic...??? dood.."dude".......Late 19th Century from the German-"dude" which means "fool." I hope youre a little more selective over your path to salvation than you were your nic... Regards, Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2006 OC: i don't mean this as a insult none at all. You "highlighted" all the action "words". This implies to the person you saying it to is I think your "dumb". So I will not answer. Re-read my posts. dood In post #37 I only highlighted one word and it was FEAR and I was speaking about the fear of the Lord that we as Christians are suppose to have. Seeing you have all the evidence and there is no action words here that are highlighted you have no reason not to reply. billylovesdarrin also I noticed asked a good question of you but you did not answer it so I'll ask it again here as well. Are you saved? OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 16, 2006 I didn't mean to insult you. I apologize if that's what it looked like. It's just that when someone calls hell a bait and hook game, it really sounds like you don't take people's eternal destination seriously. That makes it look like you're a "nonbeliever". That's why I asked. If there was an assumption, if I thought I already knew the answer, I wouldn't have asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Johns Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 19 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/08/1966 Share Posted August 16, 2006 well the old time preachers used to try to frighten people into heaven, guess if people do not want to hear about a loving God they are even less likely to want to hear about hell...so if we are to win souls for God then perhaps love is the way to do it not fear ?? We are to speak the truth in Love. oc is it not love to tell people about hell and how they can be saved from going there? yes it is! I agree tell it like it is..don't hold back because you are worried about scaring someone. Fear can be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 16, 2006 The Bible says it's the goodness of the Lord that draws men to repentence. It would, however not be a very loving thing to watch someone walk off a cliff and not warn them. I think when looked at in a balanced way, this is one of those things that we must be led by the Spirit on in each and every witness differently. He'll tell us what to say, if we listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts