Cutting...what would you do?

[cjrose]

Survival mode? Can't experience bad without good, or good without bad?

Dood, are you talking to the dense one?

I didn't get that one either billie

[billie]

I take medicine because I have a chemical imbalance in my brain. It doesn't produce the right kinds of chemicals. This is very much a medical, physical problem, like diabetics don't produce enough insulin. Does that make them evil? The type of medication I'm on has no "numbing" properties. I'm surprised how many Christians are ignorant in this area. There are many different kinds of meds, and they do various and sundry things for our body. I'd think before one begins taking potshots, one would see to it to educate themselves about what they're speaking about. This is the type of thinking that lead to holes being drilled in people's heads in the past when they weren't considered "normal", or just like everyone else. With people still having this mindset, no wonder mental illness still carries such a stigma. From some of our own brothers, too.

[cjrose]

cjrose,

My apologies if I have hurt your feelings...I did not mean to do so..

Please forgive me. I do not trivialise your illness OR your medication that gives you quality of life.

I simply want US as Christians NOT to ignore the very real issue of spiritual bondage.

Regards,

Ben.

Ben,

Thank you for that and I accept your apology. However, you did not hurt my feelings but as you feel you have a duty to let all know that Jesus is the only healer, I have a duty to debate the other side of the issue to let others know there are doctors that can and do help our physical bodies maitain a quality of life through medication that otherwise they may take problems in their own hands and kill themselves because they can't take the pain any longer. And I'm sure that your response to that would be that they didn't have God. But you can't judge that. They may have had God but the imbalance caused them such depression that clouded their way to God they just couldn't take it anymore. We need God to help us help ourselves. Think about it and try and see it from our side?

Blessings

[cjrose]

Ben,

You really don't understand the full story....When I was diagnosed with depression and before I came to God it made impossible. I don't take medicine anymore for it but it is very difficult on some days not to feel worthless. Compaines such as the one you suggested are at least trying to help people. Yes if there is misleading information the blood of the spilled person will be on them. Paxil the drug you suggested is the one my mom took along with many others to help with her mental problems. She then had a stroke I was 16. Your telling me God will just fix everything. I love my mom the way she was before, during and after. You don't see how badly it can mess up a person on the inside. God has helped some with the depression but there is still damage within me from the years of tormenting from my family when I was younger and my friends at school. Please don't sit here and try and tell me that you know better. Unless you have walked a mile in my shoes and life. Unfortunately i don't think you can understand. I have good days where I think I am worth something and other days where I'd rather kill myself than live another second longer. Until you fully understand what's it like living with something such as billy suggests you won't understand in the slightest.

Great post

[cjrose]

i have known several cutters over the years.....

one young lady i know that was cutting was off into drugs and the witchcraft, rejecting Christ,

another was demonicaly troubled (possibly possessed)

both young ladies, turning their lives over to Christ resolved this issue, an issue where shrinks have no power to do anything about, where institutions have no effect on this ordeal.

they both have scars that will be their their entire life, physical scars, the mental scars have healed and they have all but forgotten the ordeals they were going through they remember but do not dwell on the issues that are in the past....

thnk about the man in the tombs, how bad off he was.... breaking chains that were to bind him...

think about the boy that would have fits that would even cause him to fall in the fire....

some say that cutting is mental illness..... others say that it is demon originated.....

if mental, then the elders are to be called out and the person should be annointed, and hands laid upon them, and prayed over and their sins will be forgiven and they will be healed.....

if demon possessed, then i would have to say it would require prayer and fasting and againg, the elders called out and the person annointed by those that have sanctivied themselves, set themselves apart in prayer and fasting, to lay hands upon this person, and call out the demon(s)

some believe that the cutting will release the demons, and that is why they are trying to do, is to get rid of the pain and discomfort of the demon in them....

some that have demons trying to steal away the soul/body, will be seen clawing themselves trying to get their own bodies back from control of another....

in this day and age, everone i have seen that is or was a cutter, was doing this while they were not with Christ, but away from Christ, and those that are not doing it anymore are now following Christ very closely...

mike

Please provide proof of this. Demon Possession? Doctors have a track record of curing 1000's and 1000's of cases of cutters. Please don't confuse some believe its demon pocession with Only a minority who have no proven track record that is within only certain branches of the church that believe this.

Has anyone ever witness someone EVER successfully removing a demon through prayer? I heard of temporary doing so. This ultimately is a failure. Goto a doctor.

This reminds me of exorcisms. No one has ever seen a real one. It's always done behind closed doors. I feel bad for those victems at the ruthlessness of others mental illness's.

actually, I have witnessed it.... several times.... it does not come from just speaking it, it comes through prayer and fasting.... as far as no one ever seeing one, i have seen it on the streets of Joplin Mo.... not always done behind closed doors...

now days everything has to be either a mental thing or a physical thing, this is not always true... doctors are mostly in it for the money... most really do not have a persons total well being in mind....

if a doctor truely wants to help people, they tend to get canned from their afiliation with the hospitals.

one doc i knew, was canned because he did not put enough people in the hospital... did you know that hospitals run on a quota system? if you dig, you will find that most have a quota system, and when the number of people that are being admitted are down, the doctors of the clinics are presured to supply more people to the hospital... pressured to admit more.... this is a honest to goodness true practice.

i know one young lady that was physically picked up and thrown down the stairs when no one else was at the top of the stairs, she was not touching the floor for several seconds and then thrown down and another time picked up and thrown up against the wall from across the room...

this peticular girl was suppose to be raised up as a priestest for satan, but refused when she got close to the age this was suppose to happen, her biological father has tryed everything to get her back, but she will not release Christ.....

demon activity is serious.... nothing to scoff at, nothing to play with.... playing with demons can get a person in trouble, once the demons have been removed, forced out, there is a void... it must be filled with something, and if the person chooses Christ, then the void in them will be filled with the Holy Spirit, if they do not choose Christ, then the demon can come back and take over the person again, only this time he plans on having a party, so he invites several of his friends with him.

why is this not seen on a regular bassis? probably because of lack of faith, and scoffers and those that do not believe that this sort of thing happens. IT DOES... why is it not always documented? well, it is for God's Glory, not for mine... if some one writes about it, they turn it into mans glory, not God's, man gets the credit not God so those that are involved in this area do not go looking for a headline.....

it is not the people that are doing the casting out, but it is God..... being that even the demons tremble at just the Name of the Lord God....

they do not care who I am, but they know who God is and they tremble at the mention of His Holy Name, as we should.

part of the healing comes from the faith we carry, some comes fromthe part of the faith that the person needing the healing carries, and most comes from God.... we can stop a healing just as fast as some one else can speak the words....

I heard of temporary doing so. This ultimately is a failure. Goto a doctor.

by speaking words of doubt, you can keep from allowing God to work through people, why do you think even Christ could do very few healings and miricles in His home town???? was it because of His lack of faith?

NO!

it was due to the lack of faith of all those around him speaking such things that would bring doubt to the hearing of others, thus, very few were healed.....

Who Is He, Isn't He just (JUST) the carpenters son?

words of doubt, words speaking of their lack of faith.....

I reject your words of doubt, I will accept and cling to the Words of Christ in this matter. just as Paul did, just as Peter did, just asJohn did and just as many in modern days are doing, as Smith Wigglesworth did (also noted forthe Spirit of God working through him to raise 20 plus people back from the dead ).. I stand on God's Word, He said it will be done, Christ said that we will be doing the same things He has done, and even greater things with the Holy Spirit through us.

you can scoff all you want, but by doing so, you will see nothing such as this happen...

The Word of God says it.......... THAT SETTLES IT...... dont matter what i think, it is already said and done.

mike

Atention Ben and Mike: I feel as if I am up against a brick wall plus and I am tired, so tired of trying to argue sementics with the two of you when you fail to listen and keep the debate on an even level. So it is a waste of time and energy to try and continue to explain to you the differences between God healing then and God healing now. It can open up so much more. I am not willing to engage in anymore debating which feels like arguing to me with other Christians. I came to this forum to get away from that so I am ending my part of this now as I have posted all I can.

So God Bless you and keep you safe and my God help you if you really become ill and need the help of medicine.

[cjrose]

I can feel your passion on this topic but this is today's world. We don't live in the dark ages but in a world filled with pain and violence and teens who are abused and can do nothing about it. I believe in the power of God but I also believe that these youths need to talk to someone about what they are going through. First step is to admit you have a problem. How can you get a youth who is worldly and in pain to trust anyone. Ministering to them and finding a spiritual counselor is a must but they are in pain and cannot control their actions. It's an illness. They need help as much as prayer.

I am ashamed to admit this but since this topic has come up I will tell you I know first hand what it is like for I have cut my inner arm and wrists several times as a teen and once as an adult. In fact the wound was so bad I needed stitches but I let several days go by and they could only butterfly the gap together and gave me a tetnus shot. Does that make me a non believer? I admit also that I was so depressed at that time I wanted to hurt myself to numb the pain in my heart and send it somewhere else where I could actually see it. I am a true believer in the Lord and I sincerely hope you don't judge me for this admission which I have not admitted to anyone before except my husband. These youths need love, compassion, understanding and Yes Therapy!! We can pray but the Lord also says we need to take action. And with others praying for her I believe she will grow out of it. Youths that cut themselves also consider suicide because they are so unhappy and feel they don't belong. With all the love surrounding her and the prayers, she may very well grow out of it and learn to deal with her pain in a way that is more productive.

Blessings

(I've gone through & read the posts... or just ignored some posts)

cj billie

Okey, it's confession time. I used to self mutilate. I didn't really cut, per se. But I did other stuff. Like, I used to bite myself & leave marks, scratch my arms until I bled, pinch myself & leave marks, hit myself, rip my own hair out.... & I used to find things like foil, keys, sharp objects & rub them against my wrist or the palm of my hand until I bled. I did that.

Unless you've been in my shoes, you don't really know what it's like, you don't really know how it feels, you don't really know how hard it is talking about this. Like, it was hard for me to even read this thread & it's even harder to post. I'm sitting here trying not to cry because this hits close to home. But if I cry, sobeit. But, I felt led to post, so here I am.

Why did I self mutilate? Because for me, that was all I could do. I grew up in a dysfunctional family, if you can even call it that. I was abused & neglected in every way thinkable since I was 3. I grew up w/o my father. I was in & out of my mother's home 3 different times. I ran away from "home" 2 times. All this stuff. And there was no escape @ school either. I had NO one to turn to, NO where to go. I basically had to raise myself. So, to "fix" things, I self mutilated. I didn't tell anyone what I was doing. Who was there to tell anyway? I was in & out of the counselor's office since I was 5 for other stuff but they never did me any good. They gave me medicine when I was 16 -18, but it didn't help. (Remember in 1 of my posts, cj, that I said I flushed my medicine down the toilet? It was that stuff.) I'm not taking anything now b/c nothing has helped me.

The only reason I quit self mutilating is b/c of Machelle. Machelle was my mentor when I was 17. She was the ONLY one that got through to me. No medicine & no counselors got through to me. I couldn't open up to anyone but her. She was so real & everyone else was putting up a front. Or they just flat out showed that they only wanted the money. I could see straight through them & there was no way I was going to open up to them. But I opened up to Machelle. She found out what I was doing & made me promise to stop. So, I've done my best to not self mutilate.

But like cj said, that thing about suicide, I was there. I tried it countless times. But that is in the past. Who was it that linked cutting w/ eating disorders? I was borderline anorexic. I was almost completely there, but someone pulled me out. I have to force myself to eat or else I'll be right back there again. We can't have that now, can we?

Wow! That really wore me out telling you guys that. I think I need a nap now.

To the OP, I hope this has helped to get an idea what's going on in our heads. This is just only a small part of my story. People don't just self mutilate for no reason. I hope that the cutter you told us about gets the help that they need & that they can find a friend in you.

April

[irishcowboy]

i am sorry if it seems i have come on too strong for some.

just because a person is being controled or influenced by a demon or spirit or an infirmity that is not of God, does not make them evil.

yes, there are days I have that seems like i have almost reverted back to the old ways, when i realize this, i rebuke that spirit, and start Praising the Lord for He is always good, and i move on. i do not want, nor will i allow satan to interfer with my life.

satan has a nasty habit of throwing things back into a persons face....telling them that nothing has changed...

i must say, that only God can heal, the healing power can flow through a man, on the other hand, Man can not heal, man can only provide a cure.... there is a difference between healing and curing...

curing comes from medicine, drugs, man induced treatments, healing is not from man but from God.

as far as waiting on God, this is exactly what we are suppose to do, wait on God, serve God, praise God no matter what is going on.

healings? a personal friend of ours turned her life over to Christ, and started seeking God on a daily bassis, earnestly seeking His Glory, Praising His Holy Name, even though she had full blown aides, thats right had, no treatment the doctors were giving was touching it, she stopped the treatments so she could enjoy what life she had left. God took her drug adiction from her, she is free indeed, not from what man can do with any 12 step program, or anything that man can come up with, but only through God was she able to kick meth, and then she went in for a check up for her aides, and they could not find it.... they did further testing to look for the HIV and it was no where to be found.... GONE.....

does she still have problems??? yes, she still struggles at times, but she rebukes it, and turns it over to God and she moves on, there are times she calls upon a friend to be with her and they pray together.....

God is the answer to all things.... man is nothing but a fool compared to God, we do not even qualify tobe His court jester.....

mike

[LadyGunivere]

Ben,

I understand what you've seen.....But sitting here telling us God can fix everything..I get mad sometimes cause I can't fix my mom. No one will ever really know what a vibrant woman she was before the stroke.....and as for me I deal with alot of internal hurting not to the point of hurting myself but to the point of trying to kill myself....I use to know a friend that would cut herself...I wanted to go to the authorities but it wouldn't have been right.....We all have to work things out in our own time.

People use to tell me when I was on the medicines that I didn't need it. To be honest the only thing they did do was make me feel like i was lying to myself. Admittly yes, No one really does listen to me here. But I am just trying to voice my opinion.

The only time I see to intervene anymore is when someone is trying to kill thereself.......Believe it or not I got in my car one day and decided to run into something. It got time to do and I straightforward asked God if my life ment something more than this He would stop me not me or anything like that.

For people like me, april, billy, and others....its not really by choice...it sometimes happens due to what happens in our lives. Your saying that you want to help me....In my mind if you've never been in my shoes or anything close to it....How can you help...How can you feel anything close to that.

God gave me the courage to forgive myself for what happened with my mom it took a while yes but eventually I did....God does help but sometimes we need others help from doctors and such...Its not wrong but its not ususally what would be helping on our own free will.

If I have offended you Ben I'm sorry this is just the way I feel. If you want to attack me for my views fine but its not a christian thing to do.

GBY,

Julie

[cjrose]

Ben,

I understand what you've seen.....But sitting here telling us God can fix everything..I get mad sometimes cause I can't fix my mom. No one will ever really know what a vibrant woman she was before the stroke.....and as for me I deal with alot of internal hurting not to the point of hurting myself but to the point of trying to kill myself....I use to know a friend that would cut herself...I wanted to go to the authorities but it wouldn't have been right.....We all have to work things out in our own time.

People use to tell me when I was on the medicines that I didn't need it. To be honest the only thing they did do was make me feel like i was lying to myself. Admittly yes, No one really does listen to me here. But I am just trying to voice my opinion.

The only time I see to intervene anymore is when someone is trying to kill thereself.......Believe it or not I got in my car one day and decided to run into something. It got time to do and I straightforward asked God if my life ment something more than this He would stop me not me or anything like that.

For people like me, april, billy, and others....its not really by choice...it sometimes happens due to what happens in our lives. Your saying that you want to help me....In my mind if you've never been in my shoes or anything close to it....How can you help...How can you feel anything close to that.

God gave me the courage to forgive myself for what happened with my mom it took a while yes but eventually I did....God does help but sometimes we need others help from doctors and such...Its not wrong but its not ususally what would be helping on our own free will.

If I have offended you Ben I'm sorry this is just the way I feel. If you want to attack me for my views fine but its not a christian thing to do.

GBY,

Julie

I am listening and I am sure others are too. So please keep sharing because you do have something worth saying

[cjrose]

I can feel your passion on this topic but this is today's world. We don't live in the dark ages but in a world filled with pain and violence and teens who are abused and can do nothing about it. I believe in the power of God but I also believe that these youths need to talk to someone about what they are going through. First step is to admit you have a problem. How can you get a youth who is worldly and in pain to trust anyone. Ministering to them and finding a spiritual counselor is a must but they are in pain and cannot control their actions. It's an illness. They need help as much as prayer.

I am ashamed to admit this but since this topic has come up I will tell you I know first hand what it is like for I have cut my inner arm and wrists several times as a teen and once as an adult. In fact the wound was so bad I needed stitches but I let several days go by and they could only butterfly the gap together and gave me a tetnus shot. Does that make me a non believer? I admit also that I was so depressed at that time I wanted to hurt myself to numb the pain in my heart and send it somewhere else where I could actually see it. I am a true believer in the Lord and I sincerely hope you don't judge me for this admission which I have not admitted to anyone before except my husband. These youths need love, compassion, understanding and Yes Therapy!! We can pray but the Lord also says we need to take action. And with others praying for her I believe she will grow out of it. Youths that cut themselves also consider suicide because they are so unhappy and feel they don't belong. With all the love surrounding her and the prayers, she may very well grow out of it and learn to deal with her pain in a way that is more productive.

Blessings

(I've gone through & read the posts... or just ignored some posts)

cj billie

Okey, it's confession time. I used to self mutilate. I didn't really cut, per se. But I did other stuff. Like, I used to bite myself & leave marks, scratch my arms until I bled, pinch myself & leave marks, hit myself, rip my own hair out.... & I used to find things like foil, keys, sharp objects & rub them against my wrist or the palm of my hand until I bled. I did that.

Unless you've been in my shoes, you don't really know what it's like, you don't really know how it feels, you don't really know how hard it is talking about this. Like, it was hard for me to even read this thread & it's even harder to post. I'm sitting here trying not to cry because this hits close to home. But if I cry, sobeit. But, I felt led to post, so here I am.

Why did I self mutilate? Because for me, that was all I could do. I grew up in a dysfunctional family, if you can even call it that. I was abused & neglected in every way thinkable since I was 3. I grew up w/o my father. I was in & out of my mother's home 3 different times. I ran away from "home" 2 times. All this stuff. And there was no escape @ school either. I had NO one to turn to, NO where to go. I basically had to raise myself. So, to "fix" things, I self mutilated. I didn't tell anyone what I was doing. Who was there to tell anyway? I was in & out of the counselor's office since I was 5 for other stuff but they never did me any good. They gave me medicine when I was 16 -18, but it didn't help. (Remember in 1 of my posts, cj, that I said I flushed my medicine down the toilet? It was that stuff.) I'm not taking anything now b/c nothing has helped me.

The only reason I quit self mutilating is b/c of Machelle. Machelle was my mentor when I was 17. She was the ONLY one that got through to me. No medicine & no counselors got through to me. I couldn't open up to anyone but her. She was so real & everyone else was putting up a front. Or they just flat out showed that they only wanted the money. I could see straight through them & there was no way I was going to open up to them. But I opened up to Machelle. She found out what I was doing & made me promise to stop. So, I've done my best to not self mutilate.

But like cj said, that thing about suicide, I was there. I tried it countless times. But that is in the past. Who was it that linked cutting w/ eating disorders? I was borderline anorexic. I was almost completely there, but someone pulled me out. I have to force myself to eat or else I'll be right back there again. We can't have that now, can we?

Wow! That really wore me out telling you guys that. I think I need a nap now.

To the OP, I hope this has helped to get an idea what's going on in our heads. This is just only a small part of my story. People don't just self mutilate for no reason. I hope that the cutter you told us about gets the help that they need & that they can find a friend in you.

April

April I'm so proud of you for finding the courage to open up and admit this in a public forum. I am so sorry you had to grow up as you did and I can relate to most of it. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing that. You are truly special.

cj Thanks. Don't be sorry for me. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? I still have my up & down days, my inbetween I don't know what days, but I'm still kickin'. I'm refusing to go back to how I was. I'm finding different outlets to let go in.

I think, though, that our stuggles, our battles, our wars within ourselves, once they are won, we can use them (to a degree) to help other people who are in our same boat, who are who we were. Did that make sense?? I think that some things we go through are given to us so that we can help someone else to get through the same thing.

CJ, you're very welcome.