jesusislord Posted October 22, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 251 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/31/1943 Share Posted October 22, 2003 A Christian Response to Wicca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The person involved in witchcraft may claim that the Bible does not condemn witchraft, since they assert that the real interpretation of the Hebrew word for "witchcraft" should be sorcery, divination and those who practice such things. Response: The Bible categorically denounces any and all occultic practices. Deuteronomy 18:10-12 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord, and because of these detestable practices the Lord your god will drive out those nations before you. The New Testament also condemns such practices (Galatians 5:20). In the city of Ephesus many who were practicing in the occult became believers in Jesus Christ and renounced their occultic practices. "Many also of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of all" (Acts 19:19). Another encounter with the occult can be seen in Acts 13:6-12 And when they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a certain magician, a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus, who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. But Elymas the magician (for thus his name is translated) was opposing them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze upon him. And he said, "You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you will be blind and not see the sun for a time." And immediately a mist and a darkness fell upon him, and he went about seeking those who would lead him by the hand. Then the proconsul believed when he saw what happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord. The Bible in the strongest terms condemns the occult and those who practice it. The road of the occult is broad and leads to destruction, while the way of Christ is narrow and leads to life eternal. Other Verses: Ex. 22:18; Lev. 19:26,31, 20:6,27; 1 Sam. 15:23a; 2 Kings 23:24; I Chron. 10:13; Is. 2:6, 8:19-20, 47:13-14; Ez. 13:20-23; Dan. 2:27-28, 5:15-17; Acts 13:7-10a, 16:16-18; Gal. 5:19-20; Rev. 22:15 They may argue that sorcery is black magic used for evil, and that they practice white magic, magic for good. Response: The Bible makes no distinction between good or bad magic or sorcery. All sorcery comes from the same source and is abhorred by God. See verses above. Many non-Christians see the return of Christ as a horrible thing. Witches will scoff at this saying "Our Goddess isn't some spiteful deity that will one day wipe out the Earth. She loves us enough to let us do what we want and make our own choices". Response: Love implies a relationship. If the goddess is in us, if the goddess is us, and is the earth, trees and that rock over there, it is impossible to have a relationship with her and it is impossible to be loved by her. God can be separate from you and be closer than anything else. The holy spirit can be in you, yet you are not God. It is this separateness that allows Christ to strengthen us. We are weak, but through Him we have strength. Because He is distinct from us He can provide us guidance, he can listen to us, he can love us. He couldn't do this if he were only another aspect of our being or of nature. Pagans believe there is no absolute truth, therefore, there is no right and wrong. Response: This is immediately a contradictory statement because people who believe in an absolute truth such as the Bible must then be wrong. The pagan will admit they believe Christians are wrong, forgetting they don't believe in a right way or a wrong way. The chances of doing something in this life that doesn't affect someone else in some way at some point are very low. Without guidance or a set of moral standards, we will negatively affect someone else. This is a fact and it is sin. The pagan will argue that we shouldn't impose our beliefs on them. They will also say that we shouldn't harm the environment. But, if I'm an atheist and believe the Earth is just a rock, I should then be able to do anything I want to the environment. To say I can't, is to say my belief is wrong. The point is, it is not possible to say all ways are truth and there is no right or wrong. For the Pagan to say there is no right or wrong is to say the Earth is Goddess, but the Earth is also not Goddess because the atheist is right too. Realizing this impossibility should alert the Pagan to the reality that there is truth out there. As eternity is at stake, it is a good idea to seek it out and listen with this new appreciation for truth. Jesus gives us a clear vision of how He wants us to live our lives. We may not always like what he says, but that doesn't mean it isn't good for us. As God gives us moral guidance, he also gives us the Holy Spirit to help us. When we accept Christ, the Holy Spirit works in us making us want to do good. Having a relationship with Christ is not a set of rules and regulations meant to punish us. It's a new life and a new appreciation for the truth. And God is there to help us. Witches believe in endless reincarnation and Karma that is passed on from life to life as you struggle to reach enlightenment. Response: There is no Choice in Paganism. No matter what you do or what you believe, your life is heading toward the same truth, the same goddess. This goddess offers no end to the wheel of life cycles and has nothing more to offer you than a broken record and eternal punishment for past mistakes. Jesus offers so much more. He loved us so much that He died on the cross so that we can spend eternity in heaven. He gave us choice. The choice to choose Him or not to choose to be with Him. Jesus does not demand that we spend life after life trying to improve our karma, while not remembering what we did to deserve the less-than-perfect karma rating that led us back to earth again. He does not expect you to be punished for a previous life's karma only to pass your karma on to another life for more endless punishment. All he asks is that you believe in Him and accept his free gift of an eternity with Him. For many Pagans the Christian belief in hell is a major obstacle. They see Christians as Cruel and heartless for believing that humans would go to hell for not believing in Christ. This usually comes from an incomplete understanding of what hell is and the free will that God gave us to choose our future. Response: First of all, Hell was created for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41, 2 Peter 2:4). The devil is a sinner and has sinned from the beginning (I John 3:8). So, hell is a place for sin and death. Why would God create a place for sinners to go, they might ask. Why would God create sin? God didn't create sin. It is a natural result of giving us free will. We are not robots put on earth and allowed only to do what God would have us do. God gave us freedom to choose and to enter into a relationship with Him freely. A relationship is no relationship at all if a person is forced to love. Pagans will also argue that no one would choose hell, so it is only because of a lack of knowledge that they would go there and that is unfair. Response: Throughout our society we see many people make bad choices with severe consequences and they were fully aware of their actions. People drive drunk, do drugs, and break the law. There are consequences for those actions and we don't assume they didn't know what they were doing. It all comes back to choice and freedom, something we all cherish and wouldn't want to live without. It is not unfair to be punished for our actions. Even nature shows evidence of consequences for our actions. Believing in Christ is an action. It is the basis for how we live our lives, and there are consequences for those who choose to live apart from God just as there are consequences for those who make bad choices in society. It really isn't so foreign. Christians are those who choose to live with Christ for eternity. Non-Christians are those who don't. Heaven is a gift to those who choose it. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life". Hell is a place for those who have chosen to live apart from God, to whom God will say "Your will be done". Why doesn't God give us a second chance? Response: Again this comes back to free will. If God manipulates the choice it isn't really free will is it? Choosing to follow Christ after experiencing the reality of hell is like choosing to bet on a horse race moments before the winner crosses the finish line. God made the evidence of His presence overwhelming. He gave us His Word in the Bible, He sent his Son to die for us, and he created the amazing universe we live in. He also gave us guidelines to live by because He wants peace and happiness for us. He didn't want us to live in chaos without Him, only to accept Him when the race is finished. God is a personal God who loves us and wants us to have hope, a hope that he freely gives. But, it is up to us to choose eternity with Him or apart from Him. God is honoring the right of those he created to make their own choices. We are not just a means to an end. He loves us and created us as unique individuals. He will reward us and receive us with open arms if we choose Him. FROM CONTENDER MINISTRIES.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmjm54 Posted October 22, 2003 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1954 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Sylvia Browne should read this. She has deceived soooo many with her talk of God and guiding spirits and the sort. Thank you for posting this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted October 22, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,550 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/15/1943 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Sylvia Browne should read this. She has deceived soooo many with her talk of God and guiding spirits and the sort.  Thank you for posting this. Yeah, and the sad part, most of them are weak and desperate souls ... AP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted October 22, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I like the song "If The Rapture Was Yesterday" by the southern gospel group The Spencers. It says "how people can go on that aren't rapture ready, don't it just stagger your mind?" It certainly does mine! We're talking eternity here, folks and if I were Wiccan and had the slightest idea that the Bible might be right, I think I'd be searching it out to make sure because as our former pastor used to say-"hell is hot and eternity is long." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladiator4God Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 sylvia browne and about a zillion others praying on others who are hurting because they lost some one and are desperate to hear from them again, they should be tried as theifs for praying on the weak like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teh Wiccan Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Wow, big post.... I'll post the Wiccan Response to the Christian Response to Wicca in a few minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teh Wiccan Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 A Christian Response to Wicca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The person involved in witchcraft may claim that the Bible does not condemn witchraft, since they assert that the real interpretation of the Hebrew word for "witchcraft" should be sorcery, divination and those who practice such things. Response: The Bible categorically denounces any and all occultic practices. Deuteronomy 18:10-12 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord, and because of these detestable practices the Lord your god will drive out those nations before you. The New Testament also condemns such practices (Galatians 5:20). In the city of Ephesus many who were practicing in the occult became believers in Jesus Christ and renounced their occultic practices. "Many also of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of all" (Acts 19:19). Another encounter with the occult can be seen in Acts 13:6-12 And when they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a certain magician, a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus, who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. But Elymas the magician (for thus his name is translated) was opposing them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze upon him. And he said, "You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you will be blind and not see the sun for a time." And immediately a mist and a darkness fell upon him, and he went about seeking those who would lead him by the hand. Then the proconsul believed when he saw what happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord. The Bible in the strongest terms condemns the occult and those who practice it. The road of the occult is broad and leads to destruction, while the way of Christ is narrow and leads to life eternal. Other Verses: Ex. 22:18; Lev. 19:26,31, 20:6,27; 1 Sam. 15:23a; 2 Kings 23:24; I Chron. 10:13; Is. 2:6, 8:19-20, 47:13-14; Ez. 13:20-23; Dan. 2:27-28, 5:15-17; Acts 13:7-10a, 16:16-18; Gal. 5:19-20; Rev. 22:15 They may argue that sorcery is black magic used for evil, and that they practice white magic, magic for good. Response: The Bible makes no distinction between good or bad magic or sorcery. All sorcery comes from the same source and is abhorred by God. See verses above. Many non-Christians see the return of Christ as a horrible thing. Witches will scoff at this saying "Our Goddess isn't some spiteful deity that will one day wipe out the Earth. She loves us enough to let us do what we want and make our own choices". Response: Love implies a relationship. If the goddess is in us, if the goddess is us, and is the earth, trees and that rock over there, it is impossible to have a relationship with her and it is impossible to be loved by her. God can be separate from you and be closer than anything else. The holy spirit can be in you, yet you are not God. It is this separateness that allows Christ to strengthen us. We are weak, but through Him we have strength. Because He is distinct from us He can provide us guidance, he can listen to us, he can love us. He couldn't do this if he were only another aspect of our being or of nature. Pagans believe there is no absolute truth, therefore, there is no right and wrong. Response: This is immediately a contradictory statement because people who believe in an absolute truth such as the Bible must then be wrong. The pagan will admit they believe Christians are wrong, forgetting they don't believe in a right way or a wrong way. The chances of doing something in this life that doesn't affect someone else in some way at some point are very low. Without guidance or a set of moral standards, we will negatively affect someone else. This is a fact and it is sin. The pagan will argue that we shouldn't impose our beliefs on them. They will also say that we shouldn't harm the environment. But, if I'm an atheist and believe the Earth is just a rock, I should then be able to do anything I want to the environment. To say I can't, is to say my belief is wrong. The point is, it is not possible to say all ways are truth and there is no right or wrong. For the Pagan to say there is no right or wrong is to say the Earth is Goddess, but the Earth is also not Goddess because the atheist is right too. Realizing this impossibility should alert the Pagan to the reality that there is truth out there. As eternity is at stake, it is a good idea to seek it out and listen with this new appreciation for truth. Jesus gives us a clear vision of how He wants us to live our lives. We may not always like what he says, but that doesn't mean it isn't good for us. As God gives us moral guidance, he also gives us the Holy Spirit to help us. When we accept Christ, the Holy Spirit works in us making us want to do good. Having a relationship with Christ is not a set of rules and regulations meant to punish us. It's a new life and a new appreciation for the truth. And God is there to help us. Witches believe in endless reincarnation and Karma that is passed on from life to life as you struggle to reach enlightenment. Response: There is no Choice in Paganism. No matter what you do or what you believe, your life is heading toward the same truth, the same goddess. This goddess offers no end to the wheel of life cycles and has nothing more to offer you than a broken record and eternal punishment for past mistakes. Jesus offers so much more. He loved us so much that He died on the cross so that we can spend eternity in heaven. He gave us choice. The choice to choose Him or not to choose to be with Him. Jesus does not demand that we spend life after life trying to improve our karma, while not remembering what we did to deserve the less-than-perfect karma rating that led us back to earth again. He does not expect you to be punished for a previous life's karma only to pass your karma on to another life for more endless punishment. All he asks is that you believe in Him and accept his free gift of an eternity with Him. For many Pagans the Christian belief in hell is a major obstacle. They see Christians as Cruel and heartless for believing that humans would go to hell for not believing in Christ. This usually comes from an incomplete understanding of what hell is and the free will that God gave us to choose our future. Response: First of all, Hell was created for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41, 2 Peter 2:4). The devil is a sinner and has sinned from the beginning (I John 3:8). So, hell is a place for sin and death. Why would God create a place for sinners to go, they might ask. Why would God create sin? God didn't create sin. It is a natural result of giving us free will. We are not robots put on earth and allowed only to do what God would have us do. God gave us freedom to choose and to enter into a relationship with Him freely. A relationship is no relationship at all if a person is forced to love. Pagans will also argue that no one would choose hell, so it is only because of a lack of knowledge that they would go there and that is unfair. Response: Throughout our society we see many people make bad choices with severe consequences and they were fully aware of their actions. People drive drunk, do drugs, and break the law. There are consequences for those actions and we don't assume they didn't know what they were doing. It all comes back to choice and freedom, something we all cherish and wouldn't want to live without. It is not unfair to be punished for our actions. Even nature shows evidence of consequences for our actions. Believing in Christ is an action. It is the basis for how we live our lives, and there are consequences for those who choose to live apart from God just as there are consequences for those who make bad choices in society. It really isn't so foreign. Christians are those who choose to live with Christ for eternity. Non-Christians are those who don't. Heaven is a gift to those who choose it. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life". Hell is a place for those who have chosen to live apart from God, to whom God will say "Your will be done". Why doesn't God give us a second chance? Response: Again this comes back to free will. If God manipulates the choice it isn't really free will is it? Choosing to follow Christ after experiencing the reality of hell is like choosing to bet on a horse race moments before the winner crosses the finish line. God made the evidence of His presence overwhelming. He gave us His Word in the Bible, He sent his Son to die for us, and he created the amazing universe we live in. He also gave us guidelines to live by because He wants peace and happiness for us. He didn't want us to live in chaos without Him, only to accept Him when the race is finished. God is a personal God who loves us and wants us to have hope, a hope that he freely gives. But, it is up to us to choose eternity with Him or apart from Him. God is honoring the right of those he created to make their own choices. We are not just a means to an end. He loves us and created us as unique individuals. He will reward us and receive us with open arms if we choose Him. FROM CONTENDER MINISTRIES.COM 1. There are some Mistranslations, some believe. 2. Nonono.... There is no Black or White Magic... The intent of the user determines the intent of a spell or Magick. 3. There are varying views on this. Some Wiccans are polytheistic, some are Monotheistic, some believe in a Divine Force/Being/Spirit. There is a relationship, according to most. Kinda like how God can be everywhere at once, but you can still commmunicate with him. 4. Pagans is a pretty wide spectrum... The law that Wiccans generally live by is "An' Harm Ye None Do What Ye Wilt." In normal non-Celtic english, it reads don't hurt others. The Golden rule is rather encouraged. In Wicca, there is also the Threefold Law, which states that anything you do comes back threefold, good OR bad. Personally I don't necassarily think Christianity is right or wrong. I'm still looking at it compared to other religons talking about it. 5. Some Believe in reincarnation, some believe in the Summerlands, it varies. Theres a general belief you go where you think where you will go, providing you were a good person. Hell, at least for me, is an obstacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusislord Posted October 23, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 251 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/31/1943 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 well , young MAN ..... The LORD loves you and wants you not to go to hell ... that simple. THE LORD SAYS NONE ARE GOOD NOT ONE.. meaning not one of us is good or could ever begood enough ot stand before him. all of our righeousness is as filthy rags to him..... We all are sinners and we ll need the saviour JESUS CHRIST . JESUS CHRIST ISTHE SON OF GOD.... THE ONLY GOD THE CREATOR. . YOU CAN CHOSE TO BELIEVE IN HIM OR REJECT HIM. YOUR CHOICE. BUT HE LOVES YOU JESUS BORN OF A VIRGIN CAME TO THIS EARTH TO BREAK DOWN THE BARRIER OF OUR SINS,,,,,, WE ALL ARE SINNERS U AND I AND EVERY PERSON WHO EVER LIVED BUT JESUS. BECAUSE JESUS CHRIST WAS PERFECT HE BECAME THE PERFECT SACRIFICE FOR OUR SIN..... HE PAID THE PRICE FOR OUR SINS. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. OUR SINS COME AT A VERY HIGH PRICE.... VERY HIGH. FOR GOD TO COME AS A MAN,,,,,, JESUS , AND DIE ON A CROSS, WHICH IS A CURSE. IN ITSELF.... HE BECAME OUR SINS.... HE TOOK ON ALLOF OUR SICKNESSES...... SO THAT WE MIGHT HAVE LIFE ETERNAL... YOU SEE GOD BEING HOLY CANNOT BE IN THE PRESENSE OF SIN... BUT JESUS PAID THAT PRICE THUS IF WE MAKE HIM OUR SAVIOUR.... WE ARE CLEANSED FROM OUR SINS...... WE THUS CAN BE IN THE PRESENSE OF GOD NOT IN HELL BUT WE MUST REPENT OF OUR SINS AND ASK JESUS CHRIST TO BE OUR SAVIOUR..... THERE IS ONLY ONE CHANCE IN THIS WORLD.... Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: FAITH IS THE ANSWER.... TO IT ALL YOU MUST HAVE FAITH IN THE ONLY TRUE GOD.... THAT HE LOVES YOU AND WANTS THE VERY BEST FOR YOU........ NOW IT IS YOUR CHOICE. ..... REMEMBER JESUS LOVES YOU AND WOULDNOT HAVE U PERISH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted October 25, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2003 http://christiananswers.net/evangelism/bel...iefs/wicca.html Here's a pretty good article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted October 25, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Teh Wiccan, So, if I'm reading you correctly, all roads lead to God? How? No two religions can agree on some of the most basic tenets of their beliefs, let alone all of them, making by necessity Christianity right or wrong. There is so much archeological evidence for the Bible. No evidence has ever refuted the Bible. Mohammed fell to the ground in a trance and started foaming at the mouth when he received "revelation." Do we ever read of even one of God's prophets foaming at the mouth? No, indeed not, but rather find that a demon possessed person did in the New Testament. Also, if all religions could lead to God, wouldn't He be a totally cruel monster? Honestly, please consider this. If Buddha or Gaia could get you to Heaven, why did Jesus suffer and die? That would mean God slaughtered His only begotten Son and that would be a very cold, callous act IMHO! Christianity is based upon faith. Faith in a God whose handiwork we can see at night when we go out and look at the stars. A God whose handiwork we can see in how the seasons come and go in order. As for mistranslations, again, we can see God's hand in the sheer preservation of scripture. The Dead Sea Scrolls, written I believe before Christ, reinforce the accuracy of the Old Testament. Dear friend, do you want to base your eternity upon a "possible" error that "some" believe "may" have occured? Don't laugh off Hell-it is real; as real as the Earth. Dateline NBC ran a story of an atheist who died and "in Hell he lift up his eyes." He was tormented by demons, could hear people screaming, and could smell the foulest stench he'd ever smelled. This man is now a Christian. There are other stories of people who have went to the "other side" and it wasn't pleasant. Marty Robbins, now deceased country singer, died upon the operating table during heart surgery. He saw the a river with Jesus on the other side. As he was about to cross over the river, Jesus shook His head and told Marty he couldn't enter because he wasn't saved. Marty Robbins was allowed another chance only by the grace of God. Today is the day of salvation-please don't turn away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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