Guest idolsmasher Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Blenny ????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 That's why I disengage from debating with you because it just doesn't seem to lead anywhere and just gets nasty. No, you usually disengage when called upon to be Christlike to both sides of an issue; espcially terrorism. Out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks. Which explains your hatred of Jews... I am just trying to speak the truth (as I see it) in love. The world can do without your version of "love." That's why I don't like to discuss with you because everything becomes a personal issue with you. You cannot tell Jews that they are racist if they support Israel, and that their Jewish friends are cursed of God and not expect us to take it personally. You cannot equate Jewish self-defense to NAZIism and not expect us to take it personally. It is your moral indifference to what the world has put us through that reveals the kind of person you really are. You can try to cover it up with clever sounding Christian platitudes, but your true colors have been seen. It just doesn't bear good fruit. I think you could be a very good brother if you could get over these things, but unless I see some fruit in our discussions, I will continue to disengage from you. Again, it is that moral indifference showing. I guess if I stopped reminding the world of what my people are going through it would make you less uncomfortable. You would prefer not put a human face on the victims anti-Semitism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted March 13, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 13, 2004 I believe there are members of the Body of Christ that attend churches i believe that they while attending those churches disagree with some of the doctrines of those churches. And I believe there are members of the body who attend/do not attend Church and are ignorant of the Old Testament foundation which the New Testament is built upon...and therefore are anti-semetic because they have been taught to be. Not to mention other aspects of being a true christian as you have personally defined it Well Yod we disagree then. So be it. There is enough information directly from the Mouth of Our Messiah contained in the New Testament to show unequivocally that anti-Semitism is wrong. If a person who claims to be a christian reads the Beatitudes then goes out and kills Jews then they are in rebellion against their Messiah Jesus and therefore false. All Praise The Ancient Of Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 13, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 13, 2004 I was thinking of a story I heard. A man was robbing a house. The owner of the house managed to stop the guy - I forget how - but the robber was arrested. Later, the robber sued the owner for interfering with his means of making a living. The robber won the lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 No, you usually disengage when called upon to be Christlike to both sides of an issue; espcially terrorism. This is how you imagine it to be. Tell me how and when you received this gift of know all see all? I would like to have it too. Which explains your hatred of Jews... I really have no idea what you are talking about. You seem to think you know more about me than I do because the last time I checked hating Jews wasn't on my list. The world can do without your version of "love." Yes it can, but the world is also hellbent for destruction mainly due to lack of love. You cannot tell Jews that they are racist if they support Israel Never said that! What I said is THE IDEA OF A JEWISH ONLY ISRAEL is a form of racism and that Palestinians are routinely discriminated against in Israel. and that their Jewish friends are cursed of God I never said that either, but God did curse Israel more than once. Is God anti-semetic too? Do you call other races and people cursed and evil? Is not that an equivalent to anti-semitism. You accuse me of racism all the time by using those convenient buzz words. You cannot equate Jewish self-defense to NAZIism Never said that either. Some of Israel's policies, especially under Sharon, yes, but I have never once said Israel had no right to self defense. I criticize the extreme heavy handedness of their collective punishment policies. They go far above and beyond what is necessary or even what is tolerated under international laws and agreements. It is your moral indifference to what the world has put us through that reveals the kind of person you really are. I just don't think it gives Jews a reason or license to do it to others. You play the pity card pretty good Shiloh. Yes it's horrible some of the things that have happened to the Jews, but it's time to move on. One way to do that is to stop persecuting the Palestinians and destroying their lands, families, livelihoods, their homes, etc, and give them a homeland. Jewish suffering in Israel is in large part because succesive Israeli administrations have been unwilling to do that and the war continues. You can try to cover it up with clever sounding Christian platitudes, but your true colors have been seen. More accusations. You are the only person on this board I know of that is allowed to continually get away with personally attacking people. I guess if I stopped reminding the world of what my people are going through it would make you less uncomfortable. I don't have a problem with you saying what you think about these things. What I don't like is that you constantly hurl personal attacks, unfounded accusations, and show a general lack of love toward anyone that dares to criticize Israel or Jews. Of course, everyone else is fair game. Sorry, I don't buy that. If hatred against one race or people or religion is wrong, then it is wrong in every case with every people. What you fail to realise is that you throw around a good deal of hatred yourself and are morally indifferent toward other peoples and nations, and religions, simply because they aren't Jewish, Christian, or even Christians who don't support what Israel is doing or what America is doing. Why is it ok for you to do that toward them but not for them to do it toward Israel or Jews or America? Would if I was to call you a Muslim hater or Christian hater? You constantly criticise them.You even display anti-semetic attitudes towards Jews who don't support Israel's tactics. You would prefer not put a human face on the victims anti-Semitism. What about victims of other races, countries, religions? You make it sound like Jews are the only people in the world who have ever suffered. I don't mind REAL anti semetism and hatred towards Jews being exposed, but yours is quite often a figment of your imagination and using those buzz words are pretty good at flipping switches and getting sympathy. You can sometimes overdo a good thing you know. Anyway, it's not such a good thing to be carrying on on the board this way so I think I am just going to have to agree to disagree with you and leave it at that. I hope you will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 I was thinking of a story I heard. A man was robbing a house. The owner of the house managed to stop the guy - I forget how - but the robber was arrested. Later, the robber sued the owner for interfering with his means of making a living. The robber won the lawsuit. There has to be more to the story than just that. I would like to see that story. You wouldn't know where I could find it would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted March 14, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 222 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14, 2004 This thread is still running?? I thought "ALL" agreed that we were all to blame? Just goes to show you, people like to hear themselves speak! Only Christ Saves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 QUOTE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Hey guys, I love the both of you. I'm probably in danger of making you both mad but I'd like to try a peace process between you two and see what happens. I don't think it is a surprise to anyone if I say that I am in Shilo's camp on the substance of the issue...so I'm going to start there. Shilo..you amaze me with your command of the facts and the language to express those facts. If I could find one area where your approach could be improved it would be a judicial usage of the word "you" People don't subscribe to Idol's "brand" of anti-semitism...he has fallen into "it" By making this so personal to any particular person, it gives an impression that you don't like this person instead of their views. While that may [or may not] be true in this case, it doesn't help your cause when people come in on the last pages of a topic and see your words out of context. For Zion's sake please consider this. And Idol....I think you are sincerely trying to be fair as best you know how...but I also think you have been swayed in the past by propoganda and that paints how you view everything. If we could keep this discussion off of the political, military, civil, human rights issues that can all be spun to favor whoever is putting out the figures, we might be able to discuss this like brothers. I believe the facts are all on Shilo's side here because I've personally invested my life to finding out the truth. Yes, Israel has plenty of room for improvement but you never give them any credit for doing the "christian" thing. They have suffered for their efforts to help their neighbors by only getting treachery in return. Jacob has been persecuted since the days of Ishmael. They have good reason for paranoid because the arabs ARE out to get them! They are perhaps the only race of people who can never let down their guard. If you would acknowledge that they have a legitimate reason for being swift and thorough with their civil defense it would go a long way to heal your conversations with Shilo. I know you are involved with aid to the Palestinians and arabs. I applaud that so long as it is not supporting terrorism (and I don't think that is your intent but they lie about where the funds go) I can vouch that Shilo doesn't have a bigoted bone in his body concerning the welfare of any people including arabs. In your case...I see some residual of resentment against Israel because you think they are making policies based on race against Arabs. While that is the end result of some of their laws it is not the intent and this is where you are making the biggest mistake. These things happen out of a fear based on fact. Palestinians are STILL sworn to the death of all jews. This gives Israel no choice but to suspect every single one of them and build walls to protect themselves. Can you acknowledge that? If so....I'd really like to move on to the scriptural root of what is going on there next...but we have to find some area of agreement to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Yada yada yada, sam old same old. I've heard all this ranting so much I'm sick of it. You continue to be in a state of denial toward the sins of Israel. At least you did finally admit that Palestinians are routinely discriminated against, but of course you tried to justify it. Talking to you on this issue is just a waste of my time because you are a closed book and not open to other people's legitimate arguments. Isn't it always the way with extremism. Rant and rave all you like, I won't converse with someone who sees a fair and just settlement for Palestinians as anti-semetic. You are over the top brother. It's time you looked at Christianity as the answer instead of the problem. Nuff said. Have a nice conversation with yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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