Guest ronald230nc Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 3:48:25 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ronald230nc Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 10:41:59 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 18, 2006 How does conversion happen in scripture? Let us talk about examples of people who had faith in Christ in the bible, and how this came about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ronald230nc Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 this is easy. Saying the sinner's prayer is simply a way of declaring to God that you are relying on Jesus Christ as your Savior. There are no "magical" words that result in salvation. It is only faith in Jesus' death and resurrection that can save us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ronald230nc Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Every believer is perfectly and eternally joined by the baptism of the Spirit at the instant he believes. He is then "in Christ." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ronald230nc Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 How does conversion happen in scripture? Let us talk about examples of people who had faith in Christ in the bible, and how this came about. You are forgetting that God does not hear the prayers of a sinner, so how can I pray to somebody who is not listening? John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. He is joined by WATER baptism, not baptism of HS. you really should read this link for an in-depth study on salvation http://blueletterbible.org/Comm/lewis_chaf...on/salvint.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ronald230nc Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 How does conversion happen in scripture? Let us talk about examples of people who had faith in Christ in the bible, and how this came about. You are forgetting that God does not hear the prayers of a sinner, so how can I pray to somebody who is not listening? John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. He is joined by WATER baptism, not baptism of HS. Jesus Christ(God the Son) always hears those who turn to Him for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stegokitty Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 (edited) Hey Ronald...that is pretty close to a script I have to follow for Soulwinning..wanna see it? Here it is... "Has anyone ever told you that God loves you and that He has a wonderful plan for your life? Before I say anything, I want to say that this is not directed AT you Anitarose ... it is directed at the philosophy behind the "script" (not that there's intrinsically anything wrong with a script) ... Firstly it isn't in the Bible. Secondly, how do you know that God loves them and has a "wonderful plan" for their lives? What if God has an absolutely dreadful plan for their lives? There are people who have been born into this world, lived lives of torment and died never knowing Christ ... never hearing of Christ. Now, these people, having been born of another fallen human being are themselves sinners, justly deserving God's wrath, and whether they hear the Gospel or not doesn't change the fact that they've sinned against God, and will spend eternity in Hell, in punishment for their sins. So, if God never brought an evangelist to this person, it's quite obvious that He never intended to save him. So, while God loves all of His creation in one sense, He does not love every individual the same (and none of them that He does love, does He love them because He forsaw some "good" in them. God chose to love them out of his good pleasure). Case in point would be the king of Egypt in the time of Moses. Pharaoh saw the same miracles that Moses saw, but his heart was not changed by God. God left him in his sin (and in fact did what was necessary to increase the sin of Pharaoh) for a purpose: Exudus 9:12-14 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, 'This is what the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me, or this time I will send the full force of my plagues against you and against your officials and your people, so you may know that there is no one like me in all the earth. God was in full control over the life of Pharaoh ... He determined where, when, to whom, and under what circumstances he'd be born. He was born and raised, and lived believing that he was a god. He was worshipped by his people as a god, and when he was rivaled by Another .... his pride flared up greatly ... exactly as it was supposed to ... for the abovementioned purpose ... so that God would be glorified through the hardened heart of Pharaoh. God did nothing to Pharaoh that he didn't want. His heart was hard against God and he liked it that way. So God "helped" him have a little more "happiness". Salvation is both glorious and terrifying. Why me and not Pharaoh? I'm just as much a sinner as he. Why me and not the pagan I mentioned at the beginning of this message? I know that God loves me, and loved me from all eternity. I know this because I believe the Gospel. And the only way I believe the Gospel is because the Spirit of God has convinced my spirit thusly ... and the only way that this could be is if I've been raised to life spiritually, for the natural man cannot understand or love the things of the Spirit ... and the only way this could be is if Christ died for my sins ... and the only way that this could be is if the Father, from all eternity, along with the Spirit and the Son, chose me (and many others) as His own possession, to be redeemed by the blood of Christ. But I don't know if God loves my neighbor the same way. I do hope He does, but He owes them nothing but wrath and indignation. I will certainly present Christ in the Gospel to him or her as the Lord gives opportunity, but I'll not tell them things that I neither know to be true, nor that I can find in the Word. "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for you life" is not Biblical. Neither the words are there, nor is permission to say such things given. The disciples are certainly not recorded as saying anything of that nature. There is a terrible lack of repentance and impending judgement in most modern presentations of the "Gospel". We need to get back to how Christ and the disciples preached and get rid of this mamby pamby candy coated Gospel. Stego Edited October 21, 2006 by stegokitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anitarose Posted October 21, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 65 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,066 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1961 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Hey Ronald...that is pretty close to a script I have to follow for Soulwinning..wanna see it? Here it is... "Has anyone ever told you that God loves you and that He has a wonderful plan for your life? Before I say anything, I want to say that this is not directed AT you Anitarose ... it is directed at the philosophy behind the "script" (not that there's intrinsically anything wrong with a script) ... Firstly it isn't in the Bible. Secondly, how do you know that God loves them and has a "wonderful plan" for their lives? What if God has an absolutely dreadful plan for their lives? There are people who have been born into this world, lived lives of torment and died never knowing Christ ... never hearing of Christ. Now, these people, having been born of another fallen human being are themselves sinners, justly deserving God's wrath, and whether they hear the Gospel or not doesn't change the fact that they've sinned against God, and will spend eternity in Hell, in punishment for their sins. So, if God never brought an evangelist to this person, it's quite obvious that He never intended to save him. So, while God loves all of His creation in one sense, He does not love every individual the same (and none of them that He does love, does He love them because He forsaw some "good" in them. God chose to love them out of his good pleasure). Case in point would be the king of Egypt in the time of Moses. Pharaoh saw the same miracles that Moses saw, but his heart was not changed by God. God left him in his sin (and in fact did what was necessary to increase the sin of Pharaoh) for a purpose: Exudus 9:12-14 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, 'This is what the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me, or this time I will send the full force of my plagues against you and against your officials and your people, so you may know that there is no one like me in all the earth. God was in full control over the life of Pharaoh ... He determined where, when, to whom, and under what circumstances he'd be born. He was born and raised, and lived believing that he was a god. He was worshipped by his people as a god, and when he was rivaled by Another .... his pride flared up greatly ... exactly as it was supposed to ... for the abovementioned purpose ... so that God would be glorified through the hardened heart of Pharaoh. God did nothing to Pharaoh that he didn't want. His heart was hard against God and he liked it that way. So God "helped" him have a little more "happiness". Salvation is both glorious and terrifying. Why me and not Pharaoh? I'm just as much a sinner as he. Why me and not the pagan I mentioned at the beginning of this message? I know that God loves me, and loved me from all eternity. I know this because I believe the Gospel. And the only way I believe the Gospel is because the Spirit of God has convinced my spirit thusly ... and the only way that this could be is if I've been raised to life spiritually, for the natural man cannot understand or love the things of the Spirit ... and the only way this could be is if Christ died for my sins ... and the only way that this could be is if the Father, from all eternity, along with the Spirit and the Son, chose me (and many others) as His own possession, to be redeemed by the blood of Christ. But I don't know if God loves my neighbor the same way. I do hope He does, but He owes them nothing but wrath and indignation. I will certainly present Christ in the Gospel to him or her as the Lord gives opportunity, but I'll not tell them things that I neither know to be true, nor that I can find in the Word. "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for you life" is not Biblical. Neither the words are there, nor is permission to say such things given. The disciples are certainly not recorded as saying anything of that nature. There is a terrible lack of repentance and impending judgement in most modern presentations of the "Gospel". We need to get back to how Christ and the disciples preached and get rid of this mamby pamby candy coated Gospel. Stego Gee, I'm so sorry you feel this way. I am being taught this in Bible school, so somewhere it MUST be in the Bible, or I wouldn't be learning it. I would much rather use this script and preach God's love than condemn everyone like "Way of the Master".....guilting someone into heaven. Don't the denominations do this already? Why do we need others doing it too? And yes, Stego, I do think you are directing this at me because *I'm* the one that posted it. If you really want to rant and rave about this way of leading people to the Lord, why don't you contact the Pastors of my church who were given this way by God Himself? Or even better, tell God how much you don't like what He created? What matters is that people are being presented with the Gospel, no matter HOW it is being presented. Yes it smacks of telemarketing---but sometimes people NEED scripts because they don't know the right things to say. I surely didn't. If you want to contact my church over this issue, PM me. I will not further respond to this unless it is in love, and honestly---I don't feel your response to this was. God bless you and I will be praying for you. Anita PS. I am sorry if this post seems harsh---my attempt to respond in love isn't always what it should be and I am still learning how to respond in love both in person and online. Forgive me and let's use this as a learning experience of how we can differ doctrinally and and still love one another in the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 21, 2006 But I would like to talk about actual people in scripture who have faith in Christ , people like Paul, Peter, Timothy, Mary, Joseph, Abraham, Moses, John the Baptist, etc, how did these people come to faith in Christ (Abraham and Moses both trusted in Christ). These are people who God used to bring us the very scriptures we hold as sacred and true. We have direct descriptions of the conversion of some of these people, how did it happen in scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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