Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[exrockstar]

exrockstar,

youre pretty much going back to the Old Testament way of thinking.

Jews had to sacrfice, etc. to show a "mutual relationship...."

this is what Paul pleads to all the Jews in most of the epistles about not going back to.

you may not be sacrficing animals at the temple but you sure are supporting that the relationship is a two-way street.

it is backtracking and these supporters of works were called Judaizers.

Quite the contrary. It actually goes back to the creation of man. But the OT was not about being saved by works either. That was the misunderstanding of many of the Jews as well. It has always been by faith and Paul gives us a whole list of persons saved through their faith in Hebrews.

Your misunderstanding comes from the fact that all of mankind was saved, an accomplished fact, by Christ on the Cross. He restored mankind back to the rightful place, which is what redemption, justification, reconciliation, made righteous means. That rightful place was to be eternal and with the free choice of chosing whether we would be in union. Once in union it becomes man's obligation to be faithful. We are not to be another Adam and become unfaithful. The saving of our souls is not linked to Christ's Work on the Cross as much as it is linked to the purpose and creation of man. It is what we fell from due to the fall. Christ corrected the fall, so that man could fulfil his created purpose. The work we do is not merit, but an obligation God imposes on us as His creatures. Creatures for which He wanted communion but He also wanted it freely given. What is love if forced?

Those who do not align their wills with God's will suffer the consequences of that rejection. They are rejecting the purpose of their existance.

i never said all mankind was saved. there will be many that go to hell.

i think your misunderstanding is that you feel that you are trying to please God (the Father) through obligation and attitude.

you never will. It is Christ that is coming before the Father to vouche for you. Obligation and attitude get you rewards at the Bema seat of Christ. Just as there are some that will receive many rewards, there will be some that will receive none.

your downfall is that you feel only those "devoted" will make it to eternal life.

Didnt you know that many will make it to eternal life but not many will be part of the New Jerusalem?

many will enter the kingdom but not everyone will inherit the kingdom.

[Renaa]

"Because JESUS took on all the sins of the people through His baptism, the next day, John the Baptist testified, " Behold! The Lamb of GOD who takes away the sin of the world! "

what? i dont think many people will agree with you and this comment.

this has nothing to do with OSAS or not.

Baptism will save no one only Jesus death on the cross will save from sin, That is why Jesus died so that we may be saved, we are baptised to show the world that we have died to sin and have risen in newness of life in Jesus Christ.

[Thaddaeus]

exrockstar,

i never said all mankind was saved. there will be many that go to hell.

I know, that is why you have such a large misunderstanding. You even here show that misunderstanding when you follow your statement that many will go to hell. The salvation of mankind created hell and heaven. Without the Work of Christ on the Cross there is absolutely no need for either heaven or hell.

This is why I also stated that your theology has a misunderstanding dealing with the fall. Christ redeemed, saved, mankind from the fall. We are not being saved from the purpose of our existance. It is the purpose of our existance that Christ is needed to overcome the fall, so we as human beings can get back to what we were to do as human beings created in God's Image. It is what we fell from. The salvation of our souls, our personal salvation is what faith is referencing. It is the reason for our very existance.

The fall was the condemnation of death upon mankind through Adam. Man became mortal. We lost life. We were condemned to die, dust to dust - read carefully Gen 3:19 and the context around that verse.

How do you propose that man can enjoy either heaven, or suffer hell, as a pile of dust?

Christ redeemed the World, the Universe. He is the Light, Life of the World. He defeated Satan and the power of Satan which is death and the resultant sting, sin.

That is why redemption is totally irrelevant in any discussion about OSAS. Man could never do anything relative to the work of Christ. How can a dead, mortal being give himself life? How can a human being, who is sinful, propitiate his own sins?

That is why OSAS is so misguided when they speak of Christ giving eternal life, and how can it be taken away. It cannot, but it is irrelevant to the faith factor. Faith does not grant life. It grants eternal life WITH CHRIST. Those that do not believe, also are granted eternal life, BUT WILL LIVE APART FROM CHRIST. That is called heaven and hell. Without Christ's work on the Cross, redeeming the World, there is no need for heaven or hell.

i think your misunderstanding is that you feel that you are trying to please God (the Father) through obligation and attitude.

Yes, it is pleasing to God when we align our wills with His own will. It is called glorifying Him. It is why we exist and why we were created. We were created to WORK with Him in this created order. God and man working synergistically, freely, obediently, with love and faithfulness. That is the whole journey of salvation. We are saved through faith, which is all works, works for which we were created to do before the foundations of the earth were formed.

Obligation and attitude get you rewards at the Bema seat of Christ.

Except the prize, the reward is Christ. So it one wants Christ, then it is incombent that one follow Him, that one remain faithful, that one love Him and his neighbor, that we be a servant, that one deny himself and take up his cross and follow Christ. Who is doing what here? Are you going to be judged on what you do, or is God going to judge Himself on how well He guided you to the end? The journey is all your obligation. If you are wondering about it, read the chapter about Adam falling. Did God prevent Adam from leaving Him or denying Him?

Guess what, Christ saved you from death, physical death, annihilation due to Adam, just so you could freely believe in Him or reject Him, and you can do it at any time in your life, and you can freely leave as easily as freely accept Him. It is after all a personal relationship that has conditions. If you doubt your conditions, then refer back to Adam again.

your downfall is that you feel only those "devoted" will make it to eternal life.

Well, the much better word is "faithful". I challenge you to find any verse, or a whole context that says that we can gain eternal life WITH CHRIST, by being unfaithful. Find even a hint of one?

many will enter the kingdom but not everyone will inherit the kingdom.

Obviously you even have a third version of salvation, since you do not agree with what I presented, but you obviously also do not agree with OSAS, since this statement denies OSAS.

[Thaddaeus]

Renaa,

Baptism will save no one only Jesus death on the cross will save from sin, That is why Jesus died so that we may be saved, we are baptised to show the world that we have died to sin and have risen in newness of life in Jesus Christ.

That makes baptism salvfic. God, in every instance of a sacrament, uses two things. His power and authority along with a physical element. Name even one sacrament that does not use a physical element. We are after all physical beings, and since Christ redeemed the physical world, what would prevent Him from using a physical means or element to convey His omnipotent power and glory?

Faith along with repentance and baptism the physical transference of the union of man and God makes one a believer and thus is awarded the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to assist them on their journey to the inheritance, to the end, the prize, finishing the race and all the other metaphors scripture uses, relative to the salvation of one's soul.

[Massorite]

If there was a man that was saved. Whom God blessed with a large nationally known ministry that touched thousands of lives which resulted in thousands of souls coming to Jesus. After some time this man became complacent and allowed the temptation of alcohol to come into his life.

Some time after that the man fell from grace do to his alcoholism and lost his ministry in total disgrace. Now there are other ministers who fell from grace like for example Jim Baker who picked themselves up and went after God again. But this man allowed his alcoholism to comsume him and his life, dieing a homeless drunk.

We know that the bible says that if we except Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour we will inherit the Kingdom of God when we die. We also know that the bible says that there will be no drunkards inherit the Kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) We also know that the bible says that if we die living in unrepented sin that we will not go to heaven.

So since this man died living in unrepented drunkenness, will he go to heaven? Scripturally speaking.

One question would be "Was this man ever saved in the first place?" and the answer is a big YES. Because God would never have given/trusted an unsaved man with a large ministry. Has this scenario happened in real life? Yes.

So what is the answer? Did the man finish the race or did he quit halfway through? Does he get the reward for crossing the finish line even though he didn't or does he get shamed?

What does the bible say? Does the man get to go to heaven because he was saved or does he go to hell because he turned his back on God for the pleasures of the flesh and died in that condition.

Please don't just give answer. Use the word of God to re-enforce your answer. Because without scripture your answer has no intigrity in the eyes of God.

A challenge has been given!

As the Spirit of Compromise Rages On.

[Mutzrein]

If there was a man that was saved. Whom God blessed with a large nationally known ministry that touched thousands of lives which resulted in thousands of souls coming to Jesus. After some time this man became complacent and allowed the temptation of alcohol to come into his life.

Some time after that the man fell from grace do to his alcoholism and lost his ministry in total disgrace. Now there are other ministers who fell from grace like for example Jim Baker who picked themselves up and went after God again. But this man allowed his alcoholism to comsume him and his life, dieing a homeless drunk.

We know that the bible says that if we except Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour we will inherit the Kingdom of God when we die. We also know that the bible says that there will be no drunkards inherit the Kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) We also know that the bible says that if we die living in unrepented sin that we will not go to heaven.

So since this man died living in unrepented drunkenness, will he go to heaven? Scripturally speaking.

One question would be "Was this man ever saved in the first place?" and the answer is a big YES. Because God would never have given/trusted an unsaved man with a large ministry. Has this scenario happened in real life? Yes.

So what is the answer? Did the man finish the race or did he quit halfway through? Does he get the reward for crossing the finish line even though he didn't or does he get shamed?

What does the bible say? Does the man get to go to heaven because he was saved or does he go to hell because he turned his back on God for the pleasures of the flesh and died in that condition.

Please don't just give answer. Use the word of God to re-enforce your answer. Because without scripture your answer has no intigrity in the eyes of God.

A challenge has been given!

As the Spirit of Compromise Rages On.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

So how can you affirm that such a man was ever saved?

[exrockstar]

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

So how can you affirm that such a man was ever saved?

this man is not going to ENTER. that is the key word.

He was never saved.

that is actually the point of why I stand on in grace not having to do anything with what I do.

The man is saying "didnt i do this? didnt i do that? didnt i cast out demons in your name?"

The man never "lost his salvation," as a matter of fact, he felt his salvation was secure.

He is pretty convinced that all those things he done guaranteed him enterance.

He felt it was secure because of the things he was doing.

Personally, I feel that all those that spread salvation based on works are going to be like the man trying to enter.

its not that one tries to "live the Christian lifestyle" that is bad, but its spreading that belief to others then no one

has faith on what Christ did on the cross (or what it means).

This "mutual relationship" is going to get addressed when one tries to ENTER.

"didnt I do this? didnt I do that? Didnt I I I I..."

[Guest Robert R]

I BET HALF THE PEOPLE WHO RESPOND TO THIS QUESTION DONT REALLY KNOW THE ANSWER DO THEY?

The answer is actually quite easy.

[Massorite]

If there was a man that was saved. Whom God blessed with a large nationally known ministry that touched thousands of lives which resulted in thousands of souls coming to Jesus. After some time this man became complacent and allowed the temptation of alcohol to come into his life.

Some time after that the man fell from grace do to his alcoholism and lost his ministry in total disgrace. Now there are other ministers who fell from grace like for example Jim Baker who picked themselves up and went after God again. But this man allowed his alcoholism to consume him and his life, dieing a homeless drunk.

We know that the bible says that if we except Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour we will inherit the Kingdom of God when we die. We also know that the bible says that there will be no drunkards inherit the Kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) We also know that the bible says that if we die living in unrepented sin that we will not go to heaven.

So since this man died living in unrepented drunkenness, will he go to heaven? Scripturally speaking.

One question would be "Was this man ever saved in the first place?" and the answer is a big YES. Because God would never have given/trusted an unsaved man with a large ministry. Has this scenario happened in real life? Yes.

So what is the answer? Did the man finish the race or did he quit halfway through? Does he get the reward for crossing the finish line even though he didn't or does he get shamed?

What does the bible say? Does the man get to go to heaven because he was saved or does he go to hell because he turned his back on God for the pleasures of the flesh and died in that condition.

Please don't just give answer. Use the word of God to re-enforce your answer. Because without scripture your answer has no integrity in the eyes of God.

A challenge has been given!

As the Spirit of Compromise Rages On.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

So how can you affirm that such a man was ever saved?

As I said, the very fact that God trusted this man with speaking and ministering the word of God is proof that this man was saved. Anybody who is not saved is a representative of satan whether they know it or not. So do you think that God would have let a representative of satan have that kind of ministry?

A text book example of what I am talking about is Ted Haggert. He fell from grace in much shame because he let the temptation of gay sex and meth get a foot hold in his life. He had a nationally known ministry, was on TV and touched the lives of thousands no hundreds of thousands of lives for Christ. But now his ministry is gone, he is know where to be heard or seen and the jury is still out on whether or not he climbs back out of the hole he has fallen into.

Was Ted Haggert saved or not? My answer is YES he was a true man of God before he slipped. Don't think that he slipped only once and lost his ministry because of that one slip. His slip had lasted for a few years before it became public knowledge.

We fall down. We get up. What if Ted Haggert continues to do meth and dies a meth addict, never returning to Christ? Does the bible say he will inherit the Kingdom of God or not?

[Thaddaeus]

exrockstar,

The man is saying "didnt i do this? didnt i do that? didnt i cast out demons in your name?"

The man never "lost his salvation," as a matter of fact, he felt his salvation was secure.

His works were secure, but he lost faith. Without works your faith is dead, just as much as your works without faith is dead. You must have both.

There are a lot of very moral people who are not christians. In fact, on the outward appearance many give evidence of doing better works than believers, but they lack faith. The two cannot be separated. They are really synonomous.