Mutzrein

explain with a little more depth. not sure exactly what you are saying. What aspect would you like explanation of?

Don't you understand that what you receive from God when you are born again, is life. No one - physically or spiritually can choose to receive life because they are DEAD. When a person's name is written in the book of life they are destined to receive life. Receiving life (eternal) is being born into God's kingdom. Once they have received the gift of life, THEN they have a choice as to what they do with the gift. Some to eternal reward and some to eternal punishment. The parables relate to these people (those in the kingdom) - not all of mankind.

OK - my opinion too. Scripture tells us that being born of God is not a 'human decision'. So if it is not our decision, we are left with one alternative. It is God's decision.

First off, work out is not work on. "Work out" means to live our lives according to the gospel of Christ AFTER we are born again, but that is another topic. Not this one. I agree but I wanted to clarify getat151's premise - which I have now. Thanks.

I haven't given an opinion yet - just wanted to know how you define 'saved' as I mentioned in my previous post. This, to me is an element which many people do not grasp. There is a difference (as it relates to a will to choose) between those who are born of God and those who are not. Blessings

Another provocative question and to me there is a point that needs clarification. What does it mean to you to be saved? Do you mean the point at which we are born again OR the process through which we 'work out our salvation'?

Praise God! - Yes! Yes! Yes! and yes we are one with Christ in the same way that Jesus and the Father are one - By the Spirit. Keep searching scripture and keep asking questions. There are some here who know the answers to your questions.

Have you given any thought to my first post - #19?

Confronting false teaching is not the same as a "attacking" a person. When someone is wrong, they are wrong and it is not "attacking" them to say so. In this case, the denial of Jesus' Deity is a heresy in the truest, theological sense of the word because it is a denial of not only the basic teaching of Scripture, but is also a challenge to God's integrity. One cannot love God and reject what His Word says. One cannot be a Christian and reject the Deity of Jesus. It is simply an impossibility. Scripture tells us that each of us, to our own master, stands or falls. My master is God - a relationship that I have been afforded by his grace, through faith in Christ. Unlike you, it seems, I cannot boast of anything except the cross of my Lord Jesus Christ. You see, I know that I am a new creation. I know that I have passed from death to life. And I know I am God's son, not because I accept the deity of Jesus, but because I have been afforded His wondrous gift of love and life. Without the Deity of Jesus, none of that is possible, because the Bible does not allow you to accept the gift of salvation on your terms. You cannot say "I have faith in Christ, but I reject His Deity." It doesn't work that way. Salvation from beginning to end is a work of God. It is not the work of God through a mere man. If all God needed was good man, He could have sacrificed Moses. Jesus death, if He was not God, would be sufficient to save anyone, much less make them a new creation. Here is the fallacy of your logic. You claim to be a "new creation." But the Bible says we are only New Creations "in Christ." That is not possible if Christ is just a man. Jesus simply as a man cannot recreate anyone's heart. That is work of God and you cannot be "in Christ" if Christ is just a man. You are trying force the Bible to fit around your rejection of Jesus' Deity, and it simply doesn't fit. If your faith was truly in Christ, you would accept His words that He is God. You would believe the Bible. As it stands, you reject one of the most important doctines in Scripture. The Deity of Jesus is a major part the foundation of the Christian faith and without it, your faith is in a man, and that is nothing but idolatry. Rejection of Christ's Deity diminishes the work of the cross. You have jumped to a conclusion that is fallacious. I have never said that Jesus was just a man. My faith is in Christ because I am in Christ. I have not 'accepted' Christ as one who would 'accept' or give assent to a doctrine. I have been grafted into the vine which is Christ. This is because I am born of God. And I am born of God NOT through any human decision but by God's will. And any who would deny it, deny the righteousness that I have in Christ. Man of course will try, but God and scripture will not.

Confronting false teaching is not the same as a "attacking" a person. When someone is wrong, they are wrong and it is not "attacking" them to say so. In this case, the denial of Jesus' Deity is a heresy in the truest, theological sense of the word because it is a denial of not only the basic teaching of Scripture, but is also a challenge to God's integrity. One cannot love God and reject what His Word says. One cannot be a Christian and reject the Deity of Jesus. It is simply an impossibility. Scripture tells us that each of us, to our own master, stands or falls. My master is God - a relationship that I have been afforded by his grace, through faith in Christ. Unlike you, it seems, I cannot boast of anything except the cross of my Lord Jesus Christ. You see, I know that I am a new creation. I know that I have passed from death to life. And I know I am God's son, not because I accept the deity of Jesus, but because I have been afforded His wondrous gift of love and life.

Has anyone mentioned this? 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (NIV) Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

I've had many experiences over the years with those who promote the experience and this is the question I ask. Does it glorify God? And let's not forget that just because the word 'God' or 'Jesus' or 'spirit' is used and so-called supernatural things happen, that this is no evidence of God being glorified. In fact rather, I have seen evidence of the opposite.

Oh I see. So not only am I not a Christian according to some (because I cannot accept the common interpretation of the Trinity) but I am ignorant. Ah well I'm happy in knowing that the the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom. What part of the Trinity do you disagree with, or what part of the definition? To me if you believe in Christ as spoken of in scripture, the one who all things were created through, then you do indeed believe in the Trinity, it may just be semantics? I don't try to get into the complexities but for me it is very simple only God can forgive sins and I want and need my sins forgiven thus I must know who God is. Woops missed this one. It is as scripture says: Jesus is the Son OF God. Not, the Son who is God. Jesus is the Lamb OF God. Not, the Lamb who is God. Forgiveness of sin? Of course it is God who forgives sin. But Jesus is the ONE to whom God has given all authority because He has put all things under his feet, except of course God himself who put all things under him. This is not semantics. This is the Truth

How are those who know God through His creation are suppose to know about Salvation through Jesus when they were not living in the known world at that time? Did Jesus go to South America? Did the Gospel reach those living in the deepest parts of the world? Is it written on the sky? The rocks? The Trees? How?? They only know that God created everything and in their hearts, they understood this, which changed their hearts. I am speaking of those who are of this group. They may be far and few between, but it is my belief that there were some. This group, God will judge their hearts. We rightly stand firmly on the Word of God, but because of this, we have put blinders on so we will not be deceived. Yet, I personally believe that God is more then what we find between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21. Even John tells us in John 21:25 ... And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen. If just the things that Jesus did in his ministry on this earth is that large, one has to understand that all that God does is far greater. So great that our finite minds would never be able to hold it all. Your Brother In Christ, OneLight Yes I believe I understand what you are saying. I understand that you are talking about the eternal destination of those who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel. And so am I. But I am talking about them from the perspective of those (ie yourself) who believe that they (those who haven

I think you missed the point OneLight. The text that you emboldened is not speaking of those who are the subject of this discussion. It is speaking of you - of Christendom. It is Christendom that stands on the wrong premise. It is Christendom that has misinterpreted scripture and now tries to find (even as other religions have done down through time) another way to God.

Oh I see. So not only am I not a Christian according to some (because I cannot accept the common interpretation of the Trinity) but I am ignorant. Ah well I'm happy in knowing that the the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom. I simply said that if you don't believe in the trinity, you can't answer the question because the Gift of God spoken of in John 3:16 can only be understood and have any meaning in the context of the Trinity in the traditional, Fundamentalist sense of the word, i.e.

Hi Eric I

Oh I see. So not only am I not a Christian according to some (because I cannot accept the common interpretation of the Trinity) but I am ignorant. Ah well I'm happy in knowing that the the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom.

Life!

Hi Patricia Do you think a person would go to heaven before judgment? Blessings

Acts 4:10-12 is pretty clear: "Then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. He is the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone. Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." John 3:17 confirms: For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life To "believe" is to "accept" what you have heard or learned. In this case, to accept what God has said regarding salvation through Christ. Jesus said people would be blessed for accepting/believing that He is the risen saviour - God come in the flesh. "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." As salvation can only come from God, Thomas' confession confirms that Jesus is God. And as God the Father himself confirms the Son (Jesus) is also God, it seals the case that salvation is through Christ alone. But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom." (Hebrews 1:8) Yes, we know that salvation is of God through Christ but nothing in what you have stated speaks of 'accepting' Christ. We say it so glibly don't we . . . with questions like, "When did you ask Christ into your heart?" or "When did you accept Christ". It is almost as though we have been conditioned to think that we play a key part in being born of God. Being born of God is without human decision so where does this decision to accept Christ come from? I don't know where it comes from but I know it only leads to one place. Self-righteousness.

Hallelujah Damien! Abiding in the Vine!

Shiloh I wasn't asking for the cut and paste expository . . . which of course is very familiar. I was asking for the scripture that you used from which the word 'liar' is taken.

The question I asked had one purpose and that was to confirm the premise that has led you to believe what you do. Your premise, and the premise of Christendom in general, says that the good go to heaven and the bad go to

I removed it because my answer only repated what had been already said. It didn't seem that way to me. The other post that had already been made indicated that such a person was not born again. The one that you responded with, indicated to me that such a person (ie me, since you know my stand on this) was a liar. I don't have anything more to say to you on the matter. No I said you call Jesus and the Father liars because you reject their own testimonies of Jesus' Deity. I did not say you are a liar. I said you are not a believer. You are not a Christian. Alright - what scripture were you taking that from?