Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Deepblue]

Guys, I am feeling so bad right now. I would have made a new thread about this, but I think it relates. Anyways, I do love God and I believe Jesus Christ is the one and only true savior. When I was maybe 14 or 15 years old I asked Jesus to become my savior. Then I walked away from God and I became a bitter person. Then I came back to God....then I became side tracked again. At one point all sort of horrible thoughts were going through my head. Thoughts that were doubting God, thoughts that were making God out to be a not so good God...

Through all this I always repented my sins. I feel bad because even though I asked the Lord to be my saviour, I did not act on it the way I should have. I still prayed everyday. Last night I was watching a video on Youtube about a man who said he spent 23 minutes in hell. After watching it I feel traumatized. I have a horrible fear of burning in hell. I have no appetite, I can't sleep, and I am so confused. I'm trying my best to start over again. Last night something told me that I needed to get up and speak to my family after seeing that clip. I went and told my mother and sister how we need to accept Jesus Christ as our savior and trust in him always. When I think of God's love I tear up. Because it is so great. Yet everytime I think a great thought about God, another thought enters my mind and counters it with an evil thought. I've been pondering my salvation all day, and I feel miserable. I don't know what to do. I plan on going to a revival tonight. For some reason I feel I have lost my salvation at the young age at 17. Then again another part of me says I still have a chance. I have never wanted to worship God with my heart so badly. I want to just praise him in front of everyone. Another weakness of mine was sharing myself and getting around people in public, but now I don't care now. I want to get into Heaven no matter what it takes. I just don't know what to do. How do I know for sure I am saved, and how do I stay that way. I feel like I may have run out of chances. But I'm not sure.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Great Falls

[spiritman]

I'd like to add one more comment to this by telling a little story that happened to me a few years ago.

I was working for a local taxi cab service picking up passengers and dropping them off. The people I worked with in the office had heard about my Christianity from one of my realtives. So one at a time they all began to tempt me to Sin.

One of our female dispatchers asked me to have an affair with her even though she knew I was married. another person consantly kept harrasing me trying to get me to lose my temper. Even yet another kept trying to get me to play poker.

I refused these temptations and kept myself Holy during the whole process ( holy means set aside for Gods purposes), you see I'm no longer my own but bought with a price. anyway, after about 6 months of this, on the side one of them came up to me asking about the issues of life and death; Why? because she saw a geuine faith, that's what the world is looking for not a bunch of hyopcrates. they( the sinners) already sin, they want and need to be set free of sin and its consequences.

We Christians have that vaccine for that Sin. Something else that is missing from this if you read about the life of Jesus, you don't see Jesus out cussing, and commiting fornication. Jesus lived a Holy life, and He said " I'm the way"

I recieved alot of harrasment, name calling, threatened with death, temptations of the flesh and everything else at that taxi cab service but at the end of the day, my behavior nudged one person to ask about the matters of life and death.

If we start acting like the rest of the world they will tag us a hypocrites.

[exrockstar]

exrockstar,

accept what Christ did on the cross is what i believe.

plain and simple.

You believe, your faith relies on your own personal performance.

thats why we're different.

But what Christ did on the Cross was for mankind. This puts you squarely into the Universalist camp. Christ did nothing on the Cross that would directly save your soul. He simply made it possible for man to once again join with God which was precluded by the fall. Man was restored to the condition, opportunity he had before the fall.

I explained this to you a long time ago. Your view has Christ saving you from being created in His Image, to have God do for you what you were created to do. No place in scripture does God ever say that He changed the purpose of our existance.

You have an unscriptural position, that is why we are different.

im not agreeing with what you're saying i believe, but that does not matter right now.

what post number is your explanation?

[spiritman]

Guys, I am feeling so bad right now. I would have made a new thread about this, but I think it relates. Anyways, I do love God and I believe Jesus Christ is the one and only true savior. When I was maybe 14 or 15 years old I asked Jesus to become my savior. Then I walked away from God and I became a bitter person. Then I came back to God....then I became side tracked again. At one point all sort of horrible thoughts were going through my head. Thoughts that were doubting God, thoughts that were making God out to be a not so good God...

Through all this I always repented my sins. I feel bad because even though I asked the Lord to be my saviour, I did not act on it the way I should have. I still prayed everyday. Last night I was watching a video on Youtube about a man who said he spent 23 minutes in hell. After watching it I feel traumatized. I have a horrible fear of burning in hell. I have no appetite, I can't sleep, and I am so confused. I'm trying my best to start over again. Last night something told me that I needed to get up and speak to my family after seeing that clip. I went and told my mother and sister how we need to accept Jesus Christ as our savior and trust in him always. When I think of God's love I tear up. Because it is so great. Yet everytime I think a great thought about God, another thought enters my mind and counters it with an evil thought. I've been pondering my salvation all day, and I feel miserable. I don't know what to do. I plan on going to a revival tonight. For some reason I feel I have lost my salvation at the young age at 17. Then again another part of me says I still have a chance. I have never wanted to worship God with my heart so badly. I want to just praise him in front of everyone. Another weakness of mine was sharing myself and getting around people in public, but now I don't care now. I want to get into Heaven no matter what it takes. I just don't know what to do. How do I know for sure I am saved, and how do I stay that way. I feel like I may have run out of chances. But I'm not sure.

Great falls,

Jesus is our Lord and savior, and always leads by example, when He told His disciples to do something it was not beyond Himself to do the same:

John 14:4-6: 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 13:4-5: 4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. 5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.

luke 17:3-4: 3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

If Jesus told His disciples to forgive when trespassed against, if the transgresser asked forgiveness, and He leads by example. then He will do the same.

There is also the parable concerning the prodical son you can read this in : Luke 15:11-24:

11 And he said, A certain man had two sons: 12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. 13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. 14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. 15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. 17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. 20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. Note the words alive again in Red

also you can read a more detailed discription of Luke 17 if you read all of Luke 18.

Just repent ( feel sorry turn away from your sin), go to church read your bible daily, worship the Lord, and pray to Him daily.

and get rid of unchristian influences in your life. Let us know what happens.

I'll be praying for ya

Your brother in Christ

Spiritman

[Deepblue]

Guys, I am feeling so bad right now. I would have made a new thread about this, but I think it relates. Anyways, I do love God and I believe Jesus Christ is the one and only true savior. When I was maybe 14 or 15 years old I asked Jesus to become my savior. Then I walked away from God and I became a bitter person. Then I came back to God....then I became side tracked again. At one point all sort of horrible thoughts were going through my head. Thoughts that were doubting God, thoughts that were making God out to be a not so good God...

Through all this I always repented my sins. I feel bad because even though I asked the Lord to be my saviour, I did not act on it the way I should have. I still prayed everyday. Last night I was watching a video on Youtube about a man who said he spent 23 minutes in hell. After watching it I feel traumatized. I have a horrible fear of burning in hell. I have no appetite, I can't sleep, and I am so confused. I'm trying my best to start over again. Last night something told me that I needed to get up and speak to my family after seeing that clip. I went and told my mother and sister how we need to accept Jesus Christ as our savior and trust in him always. When I think of God's love I tear up. Because it is so great. Yet everytime I think a great thought about God, another thought enters my mind and counters it with an evil thought. I've been pondering my salvation all day, and I feel miserable. I don't know what to do. I plan on going to a revival tonight. For some reason I feel I have lost my salvation at the young age at 17. Then again another part of me says I still have a chance. I have never wanted to worship God with my heart so badly. I want to just praise him in front of everyone. Another weakness of mine was sharing myself and getting around people in public, but now I don't care now. I want to get into Heaven no matter what it takes. I just don't know what to do. How do I know for sure I am saved, and how do I stay that way. I feel like I may have run out of chances. But I'm not sure.

Great falls,

Jesus is our Lord and savior, and always leads by example, when He told His disciples to do something it was not beyond Himself to do the same:

John 14:4-6: 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 13:4-5: 4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. 5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.

luke 17:3-4: 3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

If Jesus told His disciples to forgive when trespassed against, if the transgresser asked forgiveness, and He leads by example. then He will do the same.

There is also the parable concerning the prodical son you can read this in : Luke 15:11-24:

11 And he said, A certain man had two sons: 12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. 13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. 14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. 15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. 17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. 20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. Note the words alive again in Red

also you can read a more detailed discription of Luke 17 if you read all of Luke 18.

Just repent ( feel sorry turn away from your sin), go to church read your bible daily, worship the Lord, and pray to Him daily.

and get rid of unchristian influences in your life. Let us know what happens.

I'll be praying for ya

Your brother in Christ

Spiritman

Brother. I am ready to tell you something now. I went into the Church tonight with doubts filled in my head. When they began singing the devil put thoughts in my head such as "This is ridiculous", "Why don't you just walk out now?", "God is not good", and all sorts of awful thoughts. satan had never attacked me so strongly. I was feeling so lost and hopeless. Suddenly I saw a lady at the altar, she was kneeled down, and the pastors of the Church were praying with her to, and her soul was won to God. Let me tell you that all my life I have been such a shy person, but God gave me the courage to walk in front of the Church, and I kneeled down, there was prayer and shouting, I was crying uncontrollably and shaking, but I did not care who saw me. I even got up in front of the Church and testified. Something I would never have been able to do without truly knowing that God was my savior. He gave me strength. I sat in that Church maybe a few hours afterwards, and I felt so secure, and peaceful. I was hugging or shaking hands everyone near me. I had never been so full of joy. I feel like telling the world what God has done for me. I feel like praying for random people walking along the street. As soon as I walked out of that Church, satan was once again attacking harder than ever. Both in my mind and physically. I don't have much of an appetite and I am having some bad physical pain/nausea in my stomach area. I need your prayers. Pray that I will be able to defeat satan with God's power, and that I will have peace in my mind. Pray. Thanks.

[larryt]

Thaddaeus,

But what Christ did on the Cross was for mankind.

Oh contraire! Christ only died for the elect.

Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Mt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

This puts you squarely into the Universalist camp.

Actually you are the Universalist. You think everyone has eternal life.

Christ did nothing on the Cross that would directly save your soul.

This is blasphemy.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Ga 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [i say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

He simply made it possible for man to once again join with God which was precluded by the fall.

So then salvation is by works? I must do something to obtain salvation? I can see why YOU can loose YOUR salvation. You are trying to earn it. I cannot loose the salvation that Christ gave to me freely not of works lest I should boast.

Man was restored to the condition, opportunity he had before the fall.

In the new birth I have so much more than Adam had. I have Christ living in me.

I explained this to you a long time ago. Your view has Christ saving you from being created in His Image, to have God do for you what you were created to do.

God does for me what I CANNOT do for myself.

No place in scripture does God ever say that He changed the purpose of our existance.

You have an unscriptural position, that is why we are different.

I have yet to see anywhere that you rightly exegete any scripture. You twist scripture worse that the JW's.

LT

[RAINIE]

dear one,

salvation is a free gift,,,not earned or deserved....

i feel the movie you watched just brough up your fears....

sometimes we just have to "by faith" accept our salvation.

as human being we will always have doubts ect..that will

go against true faith....

just try to not grab onto the thoughts that cause confusion and fear......

and there is no way we could ever be "good enough" for god or to go to heaven...

just continue to be repentant when you need to..

the bible says,,,,"if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins..

find

a bible translation you can read and start reading the new testament and as god to teach you HIS truths..

and if you are not already,,

find a church body and start going and siting under the preaching of the word..

rainie

[CONTENTMENT]

I DO BELIEVE ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED. I KNOW THAT I'M NOT SAVED BY MY WORKS. I'M SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IN THE SON OF GOD. NOW BECAUSE I'M SAVED, I WORK (THIS IS SO THAT EVERYONE WILL KNOW WHOSE SIDE I'M ON). THE WORD SAYS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUIT. I'M JUST DISPLAYING MY FRUIT!

[Mutzrein]

Forgive me for coming in this far down such a long and (by the look of it) arduous track.

I just wanted to get consensus on something.

The term 'Once Save Always Saved' may mean different things to different people. The word 'saved' is often used to describe one who is born again.

Is this what the argument is about? That one who is born again cannot lose their born-again status. ie. they cannot lose everlasting life?

[Thaddaeus]

larryt,

But what Christ did on the Cross was for mankind.

Oh contraire! Christ only died for the elect.

Can you prove that assertion. I gave about 10-12 texts that refute that claim. Can you find even one that will change what the Gospel has always taught?

the two texts you use support my view completely. There is no statement about elect in these verses:

Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

in this text He is speaking about His disciples, no elect in view at all, not even believers directly, ONLY disciples.

Mt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Read John 10 carefully but take especial note of the contrast of verse 11 from verse 14. Just in case you missed it, "the sheep" are not "HIS Sheep."

If Christ did not die for sinners, for the sheep, for the world, there would be no hope of believers, for HIS Sheep.

This puts you squarely into the Universalist camp.

Actually you are the Universalist. You think everyone has eternal life.

Obviously you do not understand the difference. Eternal life does not make a Universalist,. but that all will be soul saved, or it is often stated that all those Christ redeemed are also saved. You better check your definitions again.

Christ did nothing on the Cross that would directly save your soul.

This is blasphemy.

blasphemy to your unscriptural view. But Christ saved the world, redeemed mankind, provided the means for man to live as he was created to be, in union with God. This union is the salvation of ones soul. Christ saved no souls on the Cross, only made provision for it to occur. Another assertion you have failed to show textually.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Ga 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [i say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

These texts do not support your view at all.

I Co 1:18 speaks about the hearing and believing, which would be moot point unless Christ redeemed the world, reconciled the world to Himself, Col 1:15-20.

Gal 6:14 This is directly refering to the Cross as the means and why I as a human being can be saved, not of myself, but because of His Grace to mankind with His Work on the Cross.

Eph 2:16 Wow, how direct can one make it in opposition to your view. The world was reconciled to God. All things were reconciled to Him. It is quite obvious you have no understanding of what these texts really are saying, but they do not in the least support your view.

Col 2:14 Part of the same context as the previous. But the ordinance was the condemnation of death from Adam to mankind. This ordinance, death was overcome for mankind on the Cross.

Can you find any that actually suport your view?

So then salvation is by works? I must do something to obtain salvation? I can see why YOU can loose YOUR salvation. You are trying to earn it. I cannot loose the salvation that Christ gave to me freely not of works lest I should boast.

quite the contrary. I cannot do what Christ did for me. I had nothing to do with it, cannot add, subtract, cannot even deny it. It is beyond man. That is why you totally misunderstand what salvation is all about. Christ redeemed us from the fall. But the salvation of our soul is what we were created to do, even before the fall, It is what we as human beings fell from and were unable to do, WORK WITH GOD IN THIS CREATED ORDER. This is what Adam was doing with God before he sinned. This has always been about works. The works were created specifically for us to do. And you want to deny God His sovereignty and purpose of creating you. That is blasphemy.

Man was restored to the condition, opportunity he had before the fall.

In the new birth I have so much more than Adam had. I have Christ living in me.

I don't disagree with you on that point, but the point we are discussing is that it would have been moot, impossible without the reconciliation of the world to Christ on the Cross, reversing the fall. Christ could not live in you, unless He first overcame the fall, death and the bondage of man to death.

I explained this to you a long time ago. Your view has Christ saving you from being created in His Image, to have God do for you what you were created to do.

God does for me what I CANNOT do for myself.

Yes, then get it straight. He did this for mankind because no man could do it. But He did it so you could do what he created you to do. Read the story of Adam, in case you missed what he was commanded to do in this world before the fall. He was created to be prophet, priest and king over the created order, WORKING WITH GOD TO BRING FALL THINGS TO HIM, so God could be all in all. YOU HAVE THE VERY SAME TASK AS A BELIEVER. So get on with your tasks and stop thinking that you don't need to do what Christ did and think that is referencing the saving of your soul.

I have yet to see anywhere that you rightly exegete any scripture. You twist scripture worse that the JW's.

according to your peronal interpretation. But as yet you have not shown that what I have explained has not been the meaning, the belief, the practice of Christianity for 2000 years since it was given to the Apostles.