GodisTruth Posted January 11, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 50 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/05/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/18/1965 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I am OSAS, but only to the point where God will never leave a person, but the person can abandon God. I don't even know if what I wrote makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted January 12, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2007 Christopher John, Your works do not count before you come to God...only afterwards, after repentance...I mean let's face it...we're all sinners right? how do you expect to achieve salvation? you're going to be a repeat offender until you die...so what makes your salvation, your attempt and failures not to sin, or the fact that you accepted Christ as your saviour? I expect to do so as scripture states, through faith. We are justified by faith and saved through faith. Simply accepting Christ is worthless UNLESS you continue in faith. That acceptance AND repentance is called justification (by faith) But that is simply the start on a journey with God. Didn't God say, Rev.14:12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev.22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. John.14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21, He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Let me ask you, How do you expect to live the life of a Christian IN Christ? We do the living, not God. It is a requirement, an obligation of man who desires to be IN Christ. Every man will be judged by what He did in the flesh. It is all work, not just the work that might be required to sit in an easy chair and live passively. Christianity is a life to live, not to observe or just to mentally "know". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted January 12, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2007 Christopher John, do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. it would mean something if it was relevant to the topic. The righteousness referred to here is the Work of Christ on the Cross. The work man is totally incapable of doing in any shape, form or manner. It is the making of the Gift. The righteousness applicable to man is faith. We are justified by faith, which means we simply take hold of the Work Christ did on our behalf. Then through faith, we do what we were created to do, be in union with God. thus we are saved through faith. We are not saved through justification, but through faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted January 12, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2007 GodisTruth, I am OSAS, but only to the point where God will never leave a person, but the person can abandon God. I don't even know if what I wrote makes any sense. Well, kinda. The latter part of the sentence is a contradiction of the first phrase, "I am OSAS". What follows is the precise meaning and understanding of the very opposite of OSAS. If you actually believe this, you cannot be OSAS. Having said that, it is also true that only man initiates the leaving, not God. God does leave man to His desires if man persists in quenching the Spirit. See Rom 1:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPJr Posted January 12, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 387 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/11/1977 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Leave this verse in context. It is speak of works of the Old Law. Start reading this account from verse one. There were Jewish Christians still following Old Law ordinances. yeah Jewish people do that ....quite correct. But notice you said ordinances, which is exactly what that scripture is talking about. We no longer have to keep the ceremonial law of moses. that is the law we are not justified by, because jesus fullfilled what all those offerings and sacrifices pointed to. They pointed toward the coming "Lamb of God" to be offered once and for all. So we no longer have to do those things, but we are still commanded to keep the Moral law of the Ten Commandments which point to the Creation, and act like a mirror to show us where our filth is so we can clean ourselves up. Jesus Saves us from our sin, not with our sin. Satan wants us to believe that we aren't required to, and that we aren't able to keep the law. The fact is that we can....God told Mary to go and Sin NO MORE....he wouldn't tell her to do something she couldn't do. We have free will, and if you don't repent(give up sin), you are choosing to sin against God. You have the choice. Don't tell me that you are not able. God will not tempt you beyond what you can bear. Go and sin NO MORE....you can do it, with God. Do not grieve away the Holy Spirit, for he is Gods means of convicting you of your sin. If you are convicted, let not your heart be hardened, for you may drive away the Holy Spirit who is tryin to drive you to repentence. with love in Christ, Who died that we might live, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2007 yes i believe in once saved always saved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2007 it is our life time of works to obtain that goal and for every success we have we will be rewarded for those works, even if they all turn out to be failures we will still have salvation because that will be granted by fire which will burn away all of our bad works leaving only our salvation. I agree, though not rewarded for our own works, but that which we allow the Holy Spirit to do through us. These are the only works in our life that will stand the test of fire. Jesus not only brought the gift of life but he opened the doors to allow the Holy Spirit to work in our lives achieving God's will for our life. Only that which glorifies God will be accepted by him, and only that which we do through the Holy Spirit will glorify God. Thats why its so important for us to seek the leadership of his Holy Spirit through his Word and through prayer to resist sin because its sin that quenches the Holy Spirit. But even when we do fall into sin and seek his forgiveness many times over, glory to God the blood Christ is sufficient, otherwise Christ would have died in vain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted January 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2007 I believe that if one (who may believe in being "re-lost") is "re-lost" (to THEIR way of thinking), that it will be "impossible.... to renew them again unto repentance" according to Henrews 6:4-6. Pretty serious business indeed! Thank You, Lord Jesus, for Your wonderful everlasting salvation in John 3:16!! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freedfromsin Posted January 14, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 138 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/04/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2007 1John 2:19 and 3:9-11. These verses make salvation loss impossible. Those who leave were nerver saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted January 14, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2007 freedfromsin, 1John 2:19 and 3:9-11. These verses make salvation loss impossible. Those who leave were nerver saved I John 2:19 confirms that they were for a time, but the fact that faith was lost, they withdrew from them, so that loss of faith would be manifest. To simply believe is not enough. We must continue in that belief (faith). We must endure to the end. Everything hinges on faith. We are saved through our faith. That equation has not changed from the OT to the NT and to our present age. I John 3:9-11 is saying the same thing. John is speaking to the Household of God, the Church, believers. Those who do not act, but only speak love by mouth, God's love does not abide in them. The very words clearly indicate that God was abiding, that He would continue to abide, except if they do not love each other. If they do not love in deed and in truth. John is not speaking to unbelievers here. Vs 24 is the grand summary. If we keep His commandments he abide in us. The converse is implied here, If we do not love, do not keep His commandments, then He also does not abide in us. Clearly believers can lose faith. The misnomer about the OSAS theory is that they assume the converse is true. But the fact is, the premise is incorrect. We have not been saved spiritually and it will not be confirmed until death. That does not mean we don't share in that eternal life and promise now, but we need to remain faithful. We are not saved through unfaithfulness. We are saved through faith. I Pet 1:9 is very clear on that score as is most of the NT. We don't need to show a loss of salvation, because no one has inherited it in this life. We may partake of that inheritance, we have a downpayment with our faith now, but faith must follow us all through our walk. It cannot stop. If we do falter, we repent and keep on going. But the fact is, man, believers can lose faith, can become unfaithful, can reject their first faith. 1 Timothy 5:12 Having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith. 2 Timothy 3:14,15 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of... the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. It would be rediculous to think that these verses were speaking of unbelievers. Can unbeleivers have a first faith, do unbelievers continue in the things they have learned and been assured of, and obviously, unbelievers will not endure sound doctrine and they will turn from the truth. Since there are only two groups from which to choose, the reasonable, most obvious, is that believers are being addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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