Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Eliyahuw]

For those who make or think statements like that was quoted above, please understand that we don't lose our salvation for committing one sin. We lose it for not repenting of our sins.

Say I become a Christian and after awhile of attending my church I find a nice girl in the congregation and we start seeing each other and eventually we start living in fornication. If Christ comes back and finds me living in that sin will I make it to heaven? According to scripture I won't.

Ah, I get it, it's so simple! So that means if I lie about something, like, someone asks how I'm doing and I say "fine" when I'm not doing fine, and all of a sudden Jesus comes back, I'll go to hell because I haven't repented! It all makes so much sense! Thank you for clearing it all up!

As for not knowing scripture...I really need to get my money back for studying Greek and hermeneutics. What a waste of money when you showed it was so simple!

So what did you just gain by mocking a heart thought response? You want to simplify our God and others view points so that you can mock them. That is something to admire. I am glad you have so much pride in your greek and hermeneutics, you are a better perosn because of it . . . hopefully you'll enjoy teaching, encouraging and aiding others in the pursuit of knowledge, without mocking them. I know I can learn from you, you have knowledge as do I and everybody on here. Thanks for this insightful comment, it made us all better.

Have a great day.

I wasn't mocking it - I was showing how utterly absurd it is to make it seem as simple as he did. Furthermore, I was pointing out how illogical his statement was, and how it practically condemns all of us to Hell. Let's face it, when you deny eternal security, you leave no way to measure our salvation, on what causes us to lose it and what doesn't. You also never responded to what I posted against you...all you did was thrust a personal comment at me, without addressing the content I brought forth. Hmmmmmm

Just so you can keep track, here are the responses to you from me:

Post Number 882

Not a single one of these were companions of the apostles. Most of the men you quote did not start writing until the middle to the late second century...thus, unless they were well into their 90's or above, they did not know the apostles. In fact, we do not have any writings from those who knew the apostles (except that which is in the New Testament). The closest we can get is to the third generation Christians. Furthermore, many of them showed early signs of heresy or departing from scripture. Keep in mind that at this time there were no uniformed creeds and/or doctrines, thus men would often believe what they wanted to. Lastly, many of these men relied on apocryphal works and not the entirety of the New Testament in order to create their theology - not only were they influenced by this, but during persecutions they had people who would leave the faith and sacrifice to the Roman Emperor. In an attempt to keep these people from coming back, they simply said they were no longer saved. It became an easy way to excommunicate people from the Church. You must look at the history of the theology before commenting on it.

I would also add that Ignatius believed we could never be restored back to Christ once we had "lost" our salvation. What is more interesting, is that when Tertullian writes what you quote in On Redemption he is arguing against people who believe in eternal security. Unfortunately, these writings have been mostly lost - what it does show us is that he was arguing against a sect of Christians that believed in eternal security.

Post 880

The problem with people saying we can lose our salvation is that there is no qualification to exactly how we lose our salvation.

If we verbally renounce Christ, we lose it. Yet, why are the verbals more important than our actions, if anything, the Bible is clear that God looks to our heart (actions) and judges us from this, not from what we have said. If that is our case, our actions can deny Christ, and therefore sin can cause us to lose our salvation. Yet, how big a sin? If I go out and murder people, I have sinned greatly, against man and against God...thus I guess my salvation has been lost. Of course, if I just sit around and I'm lazy and slothful, only working when necessary, is my salvation still lost for such a minimal sin? Going back to murder, what if I just hate someone, which Jesus says is the equivalent to murder. Do I then lose my salvation?

The fact is, people who preach against perseverance of the saints generally have not studied the idea of sanctification...or thought through the ramifications of their own belief.

As a side note, next time before "getting onto" me, look at the entire picture. The reason I brought up my training in the scriptures is because Cardpractor said that anyone who is against his position obviously hasn't read/doesn't understand the scriptures. The fact is, and take this as you will, I'm better equipped to understand the scriptures than he is, so it's a little absurd for him to advocate the opposite. That's not to say I have the absolute, infallible interpretation that no one can question, or that I can't be wrong - it merely means that when it comes down to it, I have more tools to work with.

My apologies on replying to your other quotes, not something I did on purpose. I had posted those other references just out of curiosity, which just shows us all that this discussion goes far beyond us, and was actually glad to see you had some of the original writings. That type of information is very valuable. Thank you very much.

As far as, how and when we lose our salvation that is a different topic. I don't think it is the actual sin that causes us to lose our salvation, but it turning away from Christ and His truth. For whatever the reason, some just think that they can say a pray and they are saved . . . they enter the born again club and never really enter into a realionship. They are deceived and most likely just had a head conversion, which is likely to be a very large part of the church right now. There is another group that get born again and then dive into the scripture to gain the correct theology and doctrine . . . they are very versed in the scripture, but still don't have a relationship with Him . . . just as the religious people of Jesus' time. They thought eternity was in the scriptures, but they refused to have a relationship with Him. (John 5) I beleive this is a picture of many in the church now, many either just join the born again club, others desire to just get their theology or doctrine correct . . . but again eternity is to know God (John 17). . . not just His scripture. It is a personal relationship that is as intimate as the one with your spouse.

What is eternity? Jesus said it is to KNOW God. Know here indicates very intimate relationship with Him. This is Jesus speaking . . . you can know all the scripture you want, and even speak greek and hebrew, and still not know God, but it is the relationship with Christ that brings eternal salvation.

Again, I don't beleive it is the "sin" that causes you to walk away from God, but a condition of the heart, but know where does it say I cannot walk away form him by choice . . . why somebody would, I don't know, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Anyways thank you for making me better. Be blessed.

On this i agree! Right now in my life, he carries me on his shoulders. Before i tried to do it myself. Took a lot of time and energy on his part, but he managed to get me to rely on him.

[AMB]

Eliyahuw,

You are a good man, thanks for the reply I like you . . . lol. God is good.

I am sorry you are reading into my post what I did not write . . . sin does not cause us to lose our salvation, we all sin and fall short, having a stronghold in your life that you are growing through does not cause you to lose you salvation.

[spiritman]

Hi brothers and sisters,

I had posted this in one of my other posts earlier, but thought it was a good point, so I'd thought I'd post it here again, this time without all the other stuff to wade through.

basically by not taking the whole word of God, and putting it together as one letter to Gods people, For example the O.S.A.S one one side of the fence, and the your going to hell for one sin on the other side of the fence, and both groups refusing to listen to the others points. and understanding that if you put both together then you get the whole picture.

Both groups are making the same mistake that the Jews made concerning Christ. The Jews expected a messiah who was a conquering King, one who would deliver them from their eniemes. And this is in the scriptures, but the scriptures they refused to look at were the ones about the suffering servant, They saw a contradiction ( sound familiar). but both scriptures are correct. God in His wonderful wisdom choose to send Jesus the first time as the suffering servant, to die for our sins. Then next time He comes He will be that conquering King, delivering the jews from their enemies. but you have to place all these scripture together to get the whole picture. don't make the same mistake put all the scripture together as one.

Love and blessings

spiritman

[Eliyahuw]

The issue here that concerns me more, is that you think it was God, your Father, that did all these things to you. The thief comes to kill, steal and destroy . . . not our God. I do not believe it was His plan for your son to die young or for you to loose your job or health . . . regardless of why they happened, he can still use them to His glory and get you back on the path he has for you. His plan for you is health and you walking in your purpose and destiny.

Well i believe that God does take those we love to get our attention. I know he's with christ. My son too.

On my job, my health I know that is his doing too. I'll explain a bit.

Let me also tell you that i had asked christ to save me two times before that. Once when iwas 7 and once when i was 12.

Both times i was not at that point in life where i was willing to sacrifice self to christ.

First time i did it to please my dad, second time i did it because i had faced a life threatening event, i was at camp and almost got swept over a waterfall when swimming in the pool above it.

Both times i asked without believing or willing to live for him.

I was ready to die that day i went in to my parents church, i didn't care one bit about living. I was so miserable. You have to know i was raised in a church all my life. I had the truth, heard it every time was raised in a home with the truth.

But i was still miserable, and had come to the end of my self. WHen my mom went up to choir practice, i was listening to the pastor and someone else talk about the message, don't remember what it was specifically,but it involved something about living life, and i point blank told him right there, i didn't care if i lived or died.

He took me back in the office and talked with me and i told him why. I was 19 years old, had been in all kinds of trouble, had made life miserable for everyone, made myself miserable, i had been beaten down by life and my own mistakes, and had decided to end it.

He looked at me and said theres another way, a better way, a alternative to your life and i for the first time listened.

I remember being weak, full of despair, heavy heavy heart, sadness was overwhelming, and i just asked christ to save me from myself, and that i want him to take over make it better. I spoke to him like he was my father instead of some mystical figure. Said to take me and do what he wants with me.

I got a peace inside right then, no fireworks, no angels singing, nothing notable or remarkable, but just this peace that i cannot explain. That heaviness of heart went away, my dispair lifted, and happiness came over me. I knew right then I was saved. You have to go to him with no conditions, no expectations, just lay it out for him to fix and take over.

THen life smacked me right in the face. I was under attack. I wasn't mentored so to speak, my parents were happy that i was saved, but really didn't know the extent of what i was going through. I should have had other christians aside from my family take me and watch over me. (that is a part of christians job is to watch over the new ones and help protect them, strengthen them).

Anyway one thing led to another, i had been a part of a church IMO a dying church, and eventually the pastor turned me away from christ by his actions and words towards me.

I don't even really remember the words only that he had wounded my spirit deeply!

I walked out of that church and did not set foot in another one for 15 years.

Then i started going to the one i attend now, started somewhat in 1995. I wouldn't join and didn't trust anyone. I was making it on my own. Dad died in 1996, and thats when my life crumbled. Then the next year, my son was murdered. They have never caught his murderer, and i didn't even have that murderer to focus on. DIdn't help my attitude towards God at all, I swore i was done with him. Well, i wasn't listening, and he had to get my attention somehow, and around 2 months later i had my second heart attack. then i still didn't listen i had my third in nov 1996. I still didn't listen and had my 4th in august 2000, and still wasn't listening and had my 5th one in nov of 2000 and my last one my sixth one in may of 2001. That one left me 100% disabled.

Now its like this, i wasn't listening and he now had me in a position where i had to listen. first was the disabling heart attack, before when i would have one, i was back at work within 3 days and working just as hard as the day before i had one. I was invincible!

Now i was helpless. SHortly afterwards the bills piled up. my church helped a bit, until my wife wouldn't work, and then they told her either get a job or we stop helping. I agreed. Then she quit her job and left us to the wolves so to speak. became hateful and bitter towards me. Eventually she left, and i filed for divorce.

I was in a deep, dark, abyss, falling faster and faster into that depression, it was started by the surgery i underwent but compounded not only by not knowing i was in a depression and not getting help but also by loss of what i had worked hard for all my life, loss of wife, my kids were leaving as they came of age, it was all at one time hitting me.

At one point somehow someway somewhere i don't even remember, i woke up from that dream, that nightmare, and found myself facing myself for the first time. Alone, penniless, broken physically, without love for myself much less fellow man, and I started thinking. ANd the more i thought the more i reflected on the last few years. And then somehow i forgave God, forgave myself and started living again.

that was in 2004.

Since then, I have finally been whittled down to just myself. I am about to lose the last of my posessions, my house since i am unable to afford it anymore. I however was given by God a RV to live in and a place to put it. He gives me my food, my medicines, he gives me what i need.

IF someone is asking him for salvation and are not willing to give it all to him, give your life to him, love him above all others in your life, then chances are you aren't going to recieve him. I can only say this based on my experience.

In other words, you can't bargain your way in. You have to throw yourself on the mercy of the court so to speak. once you do that, you will receive his mercy and his grace.

See I don't think it is as easy as that . . . there is a sacrifice to call Him Lord and Master. We've diluted this message to say a prayer and believe . . . but look at the rich young ruler that came "running" (how often do you have people run to you about salvation) to ask how he could be saved . . . and he calls Jesus "teacher" he was in no way deceived, if he was he would have called him Lord . . . but look at what Jesus says . . .all you have to do is say this prayer and believe in me, just knock and let me in, just

Again i agree. I personally believe that those that "lose their salvation" never had it to begin with. I just cannot believe that once you have tasted of God, of the HS of his mercy and his blessings as well as his chastisement, that you could walk away. IF someone can walk away from that, then i don't bleieve they ever had it!

[apothanein kerdos]

I don't think it is the actual sin that causes us to lose our salvation, but it turning away from Christ and His truth.

That is what sin is though. In fact, that's a very good definition of it. Anytime we sin, we are putting aside and turning away from God's law and truth.

For whatever the reason, some just think that they can say a pray and they are saved . . . they enter the born again club and never really enter into a realionship. They are deceived and most likely just had a head conversion, which is likely to be a very large part of the church right now.

What does this have to do with the debate? No one who actually believes in eternal security, that is, has studied the doctrine and understands it, believes what you just presented. We do not believe a single prayer changes us, but instead the Holy Spirit enters and changes us. We state that salvation is man asking God to come in and change us, that it is our act of crucifixion to Christ, in which He enters us and thus begins a battle between that which is sinful in our mind and that which is Godly. However, we also believe that He is faithful to finish the work that He began in us. How can we fall away from what He has begun, are we more powerful than God?

Instead, eternal security is not a free guide to sin. Instead, we believe that through sanctification, a true Christian will not want to sin, or will desire Christ more so than he does sin. Someone that accepts Christ and continues on with no change has not been saved, period. Salvation is proven through sanctification.

There is another group that get born again and then dive into the scripture to gain the correct theology and doctrine . . . they are very versed in the scripture, but still don't have a relationship with Him . . . just as the religious people of Jesus' time. They thought eternity was in the scriptures, but they refused to have a relationship with Him. (John 5) I beleive this is a picture of many in the church now, many either just join the born again club, others desire to just get their theology or doctrine correct . . . but again eternity is to know God (John 17). . . not just His scripture. It is a personal relationship that is as intimate as the one with your spouse.

What is eternity? Jesus said it is to KNOW God. Know here indicates very intimate relationship with Him. This is Jesus speaking . . . you can know all the scripture you want, and even speak greek and hebrew, and still not know God, but it is the relationship with Christ that brings eternal salvation.

You cannot have a relationship with Christ if your doctrine is not correct and you do not study the Word. We are told the greatest commandment is to love God with all of our strength, heart, and mind. In both the Hebrew and Greek (in Deuteronomy where it is originally quoted, and then in all four Gospels) it means the intellectual, or rational, study of God. If you ignore this aspect, and do not seek out proper theology, then you will not have a good relationship. It is like trying to have a relationship with your spouse without ever getting to know who she is, where she comes from, and what her views on things are.

Again, I don't beleive it is the "sin" that causes you to walk away from God, but a condition of the heart, but know where does it say I cannot walk away form him by choice . . . why somebody would, I don't know, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

You're using an argument from silence, "Because the Bible doesn't say I can't walk away, it must mean I can walk away." This logic doesn't work. The Bible also doesn't say that I will die if I jump out of a plane, ergo, if I jump out of a plane I will live.

In addition, sin occurs within the heart, therefore, if it is a heart condition, then it is a sin condition. All sins are manifestations of what has already occurred within - thus, anytime we sin, we have exposed a weakness in our heart, and have possibly lost our salvation.

[AMB]

Thanks for the reply.

I don't think it is the actual sin that causes us to lose our salvation, but it turning away from Christ and His truth.

That is what sin is though. In fact, that's a very good definition of it. Anytime we sin, we are putting aside and turning away from God's law and truth.

Yes, but sin for some occurs hourly, some may go a long time without sinning . . . but a sin is not what causes you to turn away from Chirst, that is a hardening of the heart, that is when a person can deny or walk away from the truth . . . that is when they wander away, that is when they don't endure, and it is those that will be blotted out of the book of life. I am seeing that we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I do believe I can reject Christ, although he would never reject me, I can reject Him, regardless of how crazy that may seem to us that are born again . . . some can and will fall away.

For whatever the reason, some just think that they can say a pray and they are saved . . . they enter the born again club and never really enter into a realionship. They are deceived and most likely just had a head conversion, which is likely to be a very large part of the church right now.

What does this have to do with the debate? No one who actually believes in eternal security, that is, has studied the doctrine and understands it, believes what you just presented. We do not believe a single prayer changes us, but instead the Holy Spirit enters and changes us. We state that salvation is man asking God to come in and change us, that it is our act of crucifixion to Christ, in which He enters us and thus begins a battle between that which is sinful in our mind and that which is Godly. However, we also believe that He is faithful to finish the work that He began in us. How can we fall away from what He has begun, are we more powerful than God?

Are we more powerful than God, no of course not. He can only work through our cooperation with Him when it comes to our own eternal salvation. He can complete it, if I cooperate with it . . . he is not going to cross my free will . . . say I lose a love one, and hate God for it and "never" go back to Him, I don't think He would force it apon me. He would always be waiting and able and faithful to every promise in His word if I was to turn back to Him, but if I don't, I chose.

Instead, eternal security is not a free guide to sin. Instead, we believe that through sanctification, a true Christian will not want to sin, or will desire Christ more so than he does sin. Someone that accepts Christ and continues on with no change has not been saved, period. Salvation is proven through sanctification.

I agree, we are always growing as long as we press into Him. But some will not press, some will not endure, some will wander, and some will fall away and some will be erased from the book of life.

There is another group that get born again and then dive into the scripture to gain the correct theology and doctrine . . . they are very versed in the scripture, but still don't have a relationship with Him . . . just as the religious people of Jesus' time. They thought eternity was in the scriptures, but they refused to have a relationship with Him. (John 5) I beleive this is a picture of many in the church now, many either just join the born again club, others desire to just get their theology or doctrine correct . . . but again eternity is to know God (John 17). . . not just His scripture. It is a personal relationship that is as intimate as the one with your spouse.

What is eternity? Jesus said it is to KNOW God. Know here indicates very intimate relationship with Him. This is Jesus speaking . . . you can know all the scripture you want, and even speak greek and hebrew, and still not know God, but it is the relationship with Christ that brings eternal salvation.

You cannot have a relationship with Christ if your doctrine is not correct and you do not study the Word. We are told the greatest commandment is to love God with all of our strength, heart, and mind. In both the Hebrew and Greek (in Deuteronomy where it is originally quoted, and then in all four Gospels) it means the intellectual, or rational, study of God. If you ignore this aspect, and do not seek out proper theology, then you will not have a good relationship. It is like trying to have a relationship with your spouse without ever getting to know who she is, where she comes from, and what her views on things are.

Hmmm I would have to disagree some with part of this. I agree we need to meditate on the Word, hands down it is our bread of life, without we would be lost. I also agree we must come to him with all of our strength, heart and mind. But the intellectual or rational part is where we deviate, or perhaps we do not, it is just important not to over emphasize our intellectual capabilities, and not submit to the leading of the spirit, which I am sure you would completely agree:

Rationalism is reliance on reason as the basis for estabishment of religious truth; a theory that reason is in itself a source of knowledge superior to and independent of sense perceptions. This does has a place in that it allows us to obtain Logos, it is calculated, it is cognitive and analytical, and uses much academic study but a christian who only develops his mind flows with only a knowledge of Logos, and not rhema. It is the Spirit that reveals rhema to us, of course through the logos. But I am sure we agree on this.

We are to be Spirit led, driven and enlightened. This is where logos turns into rhema, the truth about what God is speaking to me, but it is grounded in Logos.

Again, I don't beleive it is the "sin" that causes you to walk away from God, but a condition of the heart, but know where does it say I cannot walk away form him by choice . . . why somebody would, I don't know, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

You're using an argument from silence, "Because the Bible doesn't say I can't walk away, it must mean I can walk away." This logic doesn't work. The Bible also doesn't say that I will die if I jump out of a plane, ergo, if I jump out of a plane I will live.

It does say to those that endure, and James says that those who wander from the truth, and "remain" in that state will die, referring to the soul. John says there is a sin unto death for believers . . . and he is not talking physical death. Rev. says I will not blot out their names . . . but the opposite is true. 2 Peter 2 talks of those whose end is worse for them than the beginning, because they knew the way of righteousness. They fell away, they walked away, they chose to deny Christ . . . do you think He would cross our free will?

In addition, sin occurs within the heart, therefore, if it is a heart condition, then it is a sin condition. All sins are manifestations of what has already occurred within - thus, anytime we sin, we have exposed a weakness in our heart, and have possibly lost our salvation.

You are twisting it now, it is not sin that keeps a sinner from God . . . it is the relationship. Eternity is to know God. In the greek to know means to have an intimate growing relationship with Him. If you turn away from Him, and your heart is hardened, and you choose to not return, you've lost that relationship. You chose to deny Him. Yes I believe He is always ready and willing and able to complete the work He started in you, but you have to cooperate with Him, you have to draw near to Him, you've got to give Him your everything, we are colaborers with Christ. He won't cross our free will, it is up to us to choose life or death. Now his grace will give us all we need to stay in that place with Him, but we still have to choose it, it is not forced upon us, it is a free gift that we must recieve, and cherish and endure with, and not wander from.

Anyways, I just want to say HE is so good, and so faithful, and amazing . . . I just love the truth of His Word, the Presence of His Spirit, and the fellowship that comes from submitting to Him, He amazes me daily . . . I know you will all agree with that. What have you done for your King today? God bless.

[Eliyahuw]

You can see here the work that is required of us as Christians. These are the works of working out our salvation and proving of our faith.

Ah, okay. So what you're saying is that though we can think in a Christian way, if we commit an act of sin, we're going to hell. Essentially now, you're disagreeing with Christ. He stated that all physical acts of sin began inside the mind. Thus, either Christ is wrong and you're right, or He's right and you're wrong. Or, an even worse option, you're wrong and even sinful thoughts can send us to hell. In which case, no one is in Heaven. Dang...

You have a real knack of twisting what people say to fit your own objections.

Yes, all sin starts in the mind. That is why Romans says to be renewed in our minds. We come into Christianity with carnal minds and it is up to us to change that to spiritual minds with the help of Christ.

If we keep our minds carnal then we will be more subject to committing carnal acts. Hence these scriptures -

Romans 8:5-8 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

I have never said what you are implying. You really need to get your understandings straight.

By the way, our thoughts can send us to hell -

Matthew 15:19-20 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Titus 1:15-16 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

You are completely missing the main point and are picking around a mountain with your own made up objections.

The point here is that our lives as Christians is live according to the will of God, and that will is to keep the commandments. To not keep the commandments is sin. Our lives are spent learing of what sin is and repenting of it. If we happen to fall into a sin we have an advocate to go to for forgivness. If we choose not to repent of our sins then we will not recieve the promise of salvation promised.

If you really want to believe what Christ said then read all of the scriptures and examples I have given. Take them and study them out.

Man if thats your idea on what our lives are about, i am glad i don't serve your God. My God expects me to go about the fathers work, not sit around and conjure up some sin that might send a soul to hell. I am not worried about sins as they were paid for, all i have to do is avoid sin, and quite frankly, their all listed so I don't have to learn new ones.

What a miserable life that is having to live in fear 24 x 7 x 365 days all your life worrying about losing your salvation.

Life of a christian is not about misery! Jesus came to free us from misery!

[Guest]

Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

No.

[apothanein kerdos]

You are twisting it now, it is not sin that keeps a sinner from God . . . it is the relationship.

A relationship cannot be sustained or created with God if a person sins - that is just basic knowledge and logic from the Bible. It's like saying, "All that matters is if you're plugged in," ignoring the fact that someone keeps pulling the plug. You are advocating a relationship with God when we are full of sin - that is non-biblical.

In the greek to know means to have an intimate growing relationship with Him.

Not it doesn't. How much are you willing to wager on that?

If you turn away from Him, and your heart is hardened, and you choose to not return, you've lost that relationship. You chose to deny Him. Yes I believe He is always ready and willing and able to complete the work He started in you, but you have to cooperate with Him, you have to draw near to Him, you've got to give Him your everything, we are colaborers with Christ.

Where is any of this in scripture? Where does it say, "He is faithful to complete a good work in you...so long as you fulfill contract obligations I through X?"

The fact is, AMB, you have literally no scripture to support your claim. In fact, what you are supporting is a pagan version of Christianity.

The point here is that our lives as Christians is live according to the will of God, and that will is to keep the commandments. To not keep the commandments is sin. Our lives are spent learing of what sin is and repenting of it. If we happen to fall into a sin we have an advocate to go to for forgivness. If we choose not to repent of our sins then we will not recieve the promise of salvation promised.

So we're saved by our works is what you're saying. How, then, is this different from any other religion?

[Floatingaxe]

If you fall out of fellowship with God, and abandon relationship with Him, He cannot fulfill His will in you to complete His plan for you. You need to be a participant.