Hardcore Christian Music, whats your opinion on it?

[Joshua-777]

Wow, I'm not realy sure i should comment on this but.......

I have been struggling with this topic since I've come to Cali, helping these teens that listen to all sorts of "Christian Music".... and i always come back to this......from a mile away can u tell if it is a Rock concert or a "Christian Rock" concert?

And does it realy Glorify God or flesh? Nothing wrong with entertainment, but to call it "Christian" I think is decietful, do we take porn and turn it into "Christian Porn"? Or gambling into "Christian Gambling"? Be honest with yourself and ask yourself do i listen to it to Glorify God or because i like it, and its close to what i listened to before i got saved! Then fine listen to it if u like it but dont say its beacuse it Glorifies God, because inreality u listen to it for your self pleasure!!!!

Rachel

Ok, well Now my main question, music it's self can be an evil thing, I Have heard soft praise sounding music talk about horable things, I have heard the same in metal, But I have noticed in all music there is a message behinf it, we are human, we all have different tastes in music, I play a rang of music, I have found that all forms of music can be glorifying to God. Satan doesnt own a style, thats like that debate with peter and with eating meat in the book of acts, peters like "No thats unclean" God's like hey I made it clean, ya know. Nothing is unclean of it's self, it's us who make it unclean by how we use it. Music, thats a powerful thing, what ever kind it is, now, who gave satan ownership over rock, or metal? And if thats true, well christian music like third day and jars of clay could be concidered evil aswell, cause satan uses all forms of music, hey God does too, I have known many who where saved by listening to Christian hardcore music, reading the words and letting it into their heart. I know that music in all forms has helped me grow in the Lord, so if somthing brings us closer to the Lord, how can it be concidered evil?

Very wise words Josh!

To claim that music, in and of itself, is bad or evil or to make blanket judgments about anything as being unchristian is very dangerous. It shows the puritanical, iron fisted rule that many associate with christianity and for that reason reject God out of hand. Not because they heard the message and did not believe, but because the one that delivered the message was so reprehensible in the delivery of that message. The music itself is not evil, it is merely a combination of notes and sounds, but it is the lyrics, actions, and behavoir of those making the music that make it evil and contrary to God.

Is anybody saying that if an unbeliver goes to a CCM concert, hears music that opens the heart to recieve the word, hears a sermon at the concert, and then recieves Christ, is not a TRUE christian? I sure hope not.

That is not to say that all the so-called christian bands are Godly. By no means. If you do not like that style of music then so be it, dont listen to it, but dont condemn it either. If, however, the band has a look that is not in keeping with christian morals, have lyrics that dont glorify God, or as some groups have, directly contridict scripture then by all means decry that band.

Hey thanks, thats an awesome reply, Another example I can use is, I can't stand Country music, I can detest it, or say it's evil all I want, but ya, there are alot of country singers and music that do bring glory to God in there hearts. The same with all forms of music, theres a worship song people forget to look at.

I'm comming back to the heart of worship

Cause It's all about you, it's all about you Jesus

I'm sorry Lord for the thing I've made it

Cause it's all about you, it's all about you Jesus

Music it's self is just a thing, It's the heart of it that counts, is it all about Jesus, or is it just a thing? NOw who can say that all our hearts sound the same? we all have different tastes, now everyones Heart opens to different sounds and styles, but whats important is what is it opening up to, Just a thing? Or is it all about Jesus? it's a heart thing.

Edited November 13, 2006 by josh-13

[Akiko]

Hey thanks, thats an awesome reply, Another example I can use is, I can't stand Country music, I can detest it, or say it's evil all I want, but ya, there are alot of country singers and music that do bring glory to God in there hearts. The same with all forms of music, theres a worship song people forget to look at.

I'm comming back to the heart of worship

Cause It's all about you, it's all about you Jesus

I'm sorry Lord for the thing I've made it

Cause it's all about you, it's all about you Jesus

Music it's self is just a thing, It's the heart of it that counts, is it all about Jesus, or is it just a thing? NOw who can say that all our hearts sound the same? we all have different tastes, now everyones Heart opens to different sounds and styles, but whats important is what is it opening up to, Just a thing? Or is it all about Jesus? it's a heart thing.

Wise words, Josh. 'Tis the truth.

[KeilanS]

I have been attacked so many times for my view on this. I love heavy music. Like screaming thrashing hardly-interpretable death metal music. I think that it is not always the right kind of music and I also have a fair sized collection of worship music and light rock depending on the mood I'm in. I avoid this topic generally as all 3 topics I have made involving music since I got here turned into mega-debates.

Basically, I think it's about the words, it doesn't matter if you sing it as worship, jazz, rock, country, metal, whatever as long as it glorifies God.

Oh yes, one more issue. Music CAN be addicting. I have been addicted to music, it is very powerful, far more so than most people think. One listen to a Satanic band and the song echoed in my head for a month. I still occasionally feel a desire to find that song again. Music has a lot of power, but I believe that it depends on who is making the music, not what kind of music it is that determines if the power if good or evil.

[WillingToDie]

There are a few songs that are ok...but I cant stand screamo music,It burns my ears off,I cant hear what they are saying and for all I know they could be saying something bad

Also on the image of the bands...i have seen some supposed Christian bands that look they were drug up from below (no offense to anyone of course...just my opinion). Seriously, If you are a christian band at least try to look Christian (and act like it of course)

uh, what does a christian look like?

No offense but...unless you can point out specifics and say how they contradict scripture your treading on dangerous ground theologically with a statement like this.

Now, I have seen some supposedly Christian bands who were overtly sexual...which is the opposite of modest, which is a violation of scripture....

I mean how some "Christian" bands wear dark makeup, all black,revealing clothes, nose rings,mohawks,etc. I have seen bands who claim to be Christian look like this and frankly i find it disturbing as do many others,im sure.

As per your second point, I'm sorry i should have been more clear...like you say ive seen Christian bands who are very sexual and also some that have swearing in the lyrics.

Leviticus 19:28 says,

Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves...

James 5:12:

Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear - not by Heaven or by Earth or by anything else. All you need to say is a simple "yes" or "no." Otherwise you will be condemned.

There's nothing wrong with mohawks, and, as far as I'm concerned, tats and body piercings (but that's another topic).

Also, some of you have made comments regarding some Christian bands not being "Christian" enough, in addition to those saying that certain kinds of music cannot be be Christian simply due to its style; just an example of what this kind of talk does:

In the early to mid 90's there was a Christian Industrial Metal band named Circle of Dust, consisting of pretty much of a single man, Scott Albert (who now goes by Klayton, I believe), a very talented individual (Much like NIN and Trent Reznor). Constant criticism from the Church for not being "Christian" enough, or for simply making the style of music he did. Well, Klay Scott (as he was then calling himself) became so disillusioned with the Christian Rock scene that he left it, disbanded Circle of Dust (this was for artistic reasons as well). Not only did he leave the CCM scene, but he may have left Christianity as a whole (although I think it's more likely he just doesn't want anything to do with organized Christianity).

So, the moral of the story is, you may be doing more harm than good, God only knows how many similar cases there have been, where a musician is attacked by the church, leading to disillusionment, and possibly apostasy.

[Kristano Esperanta]

It is not Christian at all.

God is not pleased.

Christians should avoid it at all costs.

Throw away what you have of it.... burn it even.

Your statement is illogical. It is the faith behind it that counts. Who are we to say God loves certain music and hates another? I listen to it, and quite frankly I love it.... If someone blasts Christian metal and loves the Lord and expresses it with that kind of music, I see that as much better than someone who sings hymns every Sunday and doesn't truly love Jesus. Christian lyrics set to hardcore music is no less Christian than Christian lyrics set to classical music.

Not to tear anyone down, I have no negative intent toward anyone here, and I love everyone here, but I can't help but saying... who are you, to say what God likes, and what he dislikes? You are severely mistaken, if you think you can make statements like that. Unless you show me the stone tablet God sent you saying "Thou shalt not glorify My name with loud music," I'm going to tell you you're wrong.

Burn it? Burn it?!?! That is a most wonderful idea-- burn it to CD's, and give copies to everyone I know at school who's never heard it before.

[Joshua-777]

Littlelite: ^__^ Thanks for your wise words.

To clarify to anyone on this board: I also listen to Chris Rice and I sing hymns... I have no problem with people liking traditional stuff!! 'As The Deer' is one of my favorite songs. Let everyone worship in their own musical style, eh? As long as it glorifies God.

As The Deer, is one of my fav songs to play

[Joshua-777]

There are a few songs that are ok...but I cant stand screamo music,It burns my ears off,I cant hear what they are saying and for all I know they could be saying something bad

Also on the image of the bands...i have seen some supposed Christian bands that look they were drug up from below (no offense to anyone of course...just my opinion). Seriously, If you are a christian band at least try to look Christian (and act like it of course)

uh, what does a christian look like?

No offense but...unless you can point out specifics and say how they contradict scripture your treading on dangerous ground theologically with a statement like this.

Now, I have seen some supposedly Christian bands who were overtly sexual...which is the opposite of modest, which is a violation of scripture....

I mean how some "Christian" bands wear dark makeup, all black,revealing clothes, nose rings,mohawks,etc. I have seen bands who claim to be Christian look like this and frankly i find it disturbing as do many others,im sure.

As per your second point, I'm sorry i should have been more clear...like you say ive seen Christian bands who are very sexual and also some that have swearing in the lyrics.

Leviticus 19:28 says,

Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves...

James 5:12:

Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear - not by Heaven or by Earth or by anything else. All you need to say is a simple "yes" or "no." Otherwise you will be condemned.

There's nothing wrong with mohawks, and, as far as I'm concerned, tats and body piercings (but that's another topic).

Also, some of you have made comments regarding some Christian bands not being "Christian" enough, in addition to those saying that certain kinds of music cannot be be Christian simply due to its style; just an example of what this kind of talk does:

In the early to mid 90's there was a Christian Industrial Metal band named Circle of Dust, consisting of pretty much of a single man, Scott Albert (who now goes by Klayton, I believe), a very talented individual (Much like NIN and Trent Reznor). Constant criticism from the Church for not being "Christian" enough, or for simply making the style of music he did. Well, Klay Scott (as he was then calling himself) became so disillusioned with the Christian Rock scene that he left it, disbanded Circle of Dust (this was for artistic reasons as well). Not only did he leave the CCM scene, but he may have left Christianity as a whole (although I think it's more likely he just doesn't want anything to do with organized Christianity).

So, the moral of the story is, you may be doing more harm than good, God only knows how many similar cases there have been, where a musician is attacked by the church, leading to disillusionment, and possibly apostasy.

awesome post.

Once again, it's the person that counts, Now, can you see there heart through a piercing? can you see their heart through a mowhawk? no, you can't then how can you say that they're not christian? Hey, ya know God looks on the inside, Remember that whole love thing? Can you love someone with a mowhawk Like Jesus does? That should be your ultiment Goal, not to intimidate those that are into that stuff, me Ya before I came to God and after, I had a mowhawk at various times, the church still accepted me though, it's not about looks, it's about heart. Why cause harm, when you can cause love??

[larryt]

Hi Josh,

If you have seen my posts on this subject then you can guess where I am coming from.

With that said.

awesome post.

Once again, it's the person that counts,

I agree with you 100%. The person is what counts. Jesus Christ came to save sinners. I even see myself as "the chief of sinners" just as Paul did. What my life was before Christ is what I see in all people. Those that recognize that they are without hope and bankrupt spiritually are just what Jesus Christ is looking for.

Now, can you see there heart through a piercing? can you see their heart through a mowhawk? no, you can't then how can you say that they're not christian?

This is where you are wrong. I do understand that time is needed to work out some of the filth that we have lived in our lives. I am still glad and rejoicing that in Christ the Father sees me as perfectly righteous. And yet if I am honest with myself I know that in me dwells no good thing. God cannot and will not use anything of me. Only that which is of Jesus Christ.

What can I see when I see the piercings, the mohawk, etc.? I see a lot of hurt, anger, and rejection from many areas. I am glad that Jesus accepts us right where we are at.

I also know that the Lord will start cleaning up our lives. As we come to know Him we will want to be like Him, and He will conform us to the image of Himself. Do you want to be like Him or do you want people to see you and notice you? I must die so that others can see Him.

Hey, ya know God looks on the inside, Remember that whole love thing? Can you love someone with a mowhawk Like Jesus does? That should be your ultiment Goal, not to intimidate those that are into that stuff, me Ya before I came to God and after, I had a mowhawk at various times, the church still accepted me though, it's not about looks, it's about heart. Why cause harm, when you can cause love??

Here again you are right about the Lord Jesus looking on the inside. And I can love someone who has a mohawk. Jesus told those that were at the raising of Lazarus to "loose him and set him free." He was telling them to help remove the gravesclothes. What I find so unusual is that so many people want to keep their gravesclothes. If you are willing to get rid of your gravesclothes there is help in Christ. It means cutting all ties to this fallen world and everything that is in it and of it. If any man loves the world the love of the Father is not in him. Don't get angry with me that is what the Word says.

I still struggle with the things of this world but I learned a while ago that I need to keep an attitude of let it all go and seek FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS and He will supply ALL my need.

LT

[CSLewis]

Isn't a particular style of dress and style of music primarily a cultural thing? You would probably think it weird if people started wearing long hair and beards and sandals and robes around would you not? In fact I don't think Jesus would be accepted in many of our churches if he appeared as he dressed 2000 years ago. That would be wrong of him not to shave and wear a tie to church - who does he think he is? In fact Jesus was the counter culture. He cared more about people than ideas. We should too.

Having said that I always wear a suit and tie to church - I guess I've never been into the whole punk scene- just personal preference.

[Guest kiwimatt]

What can I see when I see the piercings, the mohawk, etc.? I see a lot of hurt, anger, and rejection from many areas. I am glad that Jesus accepts us right where we are at.

In Lev 19:28 God does specifically command that his people where NOT allowed any tattoos

Unger's Bible Dictionary includes the following reference for Leviticus 19:28:

"In Lev. 19:28 we find two prohibitions of an unnatural disfigurement of the body: 'Ye shall not make any cutting in your flesh for the dead, nor any print any marks upon you.' The latter (Heb. qa aqa, incision) refers to tattooing, and has no reference to idolatrous usages, but was intended to inculcate upon the Israelietes a proper reverence for God's creation."

(Merrill F. Unger, Unger's Bible Dictionary, 1974 ed., p. 696)

Notice that Unger teaches that tattoos were forbidden without any reference to pagan, heathen, or idolatrous usages. In other words, the tattoo itself, regardless the reason, was forbidden. Amen. Brother Unger.

Wycliffe