sweetycakes Posted June 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 162 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,850 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Online Birthday: 03/23/1964 Share Posted June 18, 2007 The idea of reward after death is very dangerous concept. If that were true, would it not be pious to kill everyone you encounter, so they could receive their just reward? Considering, that God should ne omnipotent, and his ways should be completely obscure, how can one be sure, that serial killer is not a tool of God to bring the bliss to chosen ones? ---------------------- If there was a supreme judgement, I would ignore God. None of my experiences yields any particular respect for him and his ways, and I would not deem it necessary to defend myself. I accept my actions completely, and I`m ready to deal with any consequences in the way I would deem most efficient at the moment. Don`t judge, lest you be judged. I see no reason to exclude God from this rule. If he were to judge me, I would exert my judgement over him. That's a very dangerous situation to be in, my friend. Remember, God is bigger than you. Better to be humble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishamael Posted June 18, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2007 No. First of all, christian definition of god is contradictive by itself, therefore taking any particular christian claim about the god for literal value is not a sound practice. Second, if we overlook the obvious inconsistencies, just how exactly God can punish me? Should he attempt something I deem not just, I would come back, and exert my justice upon him. The only veritable way to prevent me from doing that would be eliminating me completely. Considering, that christianity postulates, that humans were created in the image of God, and are ostencibly immortal (living forever in heaven or hell), at some point, I would come back, and take my revenge eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetycakes Posted June 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 162 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,850 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Online Birthday: 03/23/1964 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Well, though I know that God sometimes speaks through dreams and visions (there is another thread about this somewhere).... And though I have had several visions from God in my life, I have had only one dream in which I was sure that God was present and speaking to me. It went like this: I SUDDENLY found myself standing in front of Jesus. When I say 'standing'....I mean that there was NOTHING else around me, or UNDER me....I was sort of suspended in 'mid-air'....and there was only JESUS! I mean 'ONLY' Jesus! The realization of my sudden predicament meant that I could do nothing in His presence. I could not speak. I could not lift my head up to look at His face, though I knew He was there. I could only see His feet. I was heartbroken. I was suddenly confronted with His purity and His love, and with my own sinfulness. I spent a long time in this state, until finally I seemed to muster up the courage to think a prayer to Him (as I could not speak). I prayed simply, "Lord, will you save me?" An even longer period of time followed, which seemed like an eternity to me, as I 'stood' there, heartbroken, and utterly dependent upon Him, knowing that my life, and my eternity, was in His hands, and that I had no say in the matter. As I remained there, agonized, and constantly repeating this prayer in my mind.....after a long time He turned His attention towards me and simply said one word... "Yes." In that moment, an unfathomable burden was lifted from me. My soul was suddenly free. Moral of the story?..... Be humble. He is the judge of both the living and the dead. He is God Almighty! He will judge everything by His Word. And what He says, goes! That was SO awesome; I actually started to cry when I read this. Thanks for posting, StephenUK. Oh, yes....I am fully convinced that He can save with just a word. Just ONE word. This is absolutely a true story. And one that happened to me. Though I said that it was a dream, this does not adequately describe the events as they unfolded and were revealed to me. I was asleep, yes, and was suddenly 'awakened' from my sleep, to be confronted with the situation I described above....the enormity of which I am unable to describe in mere words. This happened probably 20 years ago. The effect of it will stay with me for life. So, what am I able to pass on, with regards to what this might mean to other people? ....You know in the bible where it says that 'heaven and earth shall flee from Him, and there shall be no place found for them?..... This is what I discovered. When you stand before Jesus, you stand alone. No family, no friends, no church upbringing, no nothing. You stand before Jesus alone. And His eye searches out your entire being....spirit, soul, body, motives....stripped to the bone...no place to hide. ...at all!! Just the ramblings and fantasies of an old man?..... Well.....we'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishamael Posted June 18, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2007 Seriously, though. One has to be in need of forgiveness and judgement to subscribe to Jesus. It is not my way. I`m the only one, who judges me for what I do, and I take full responsibility for any my action. If I will do wrong, it`s up to me to set things right, not up to Jesus to say - "Don`t worry, I forgive you." Thousand forgives will not fix one wrongdoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetycakes Posted June 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 162 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,850 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Online Birthday: 03/23/1964 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Seriously, though. One has to be in need of forgiveness and judgement to subscribe to Jesus. It is not my way. I`m the only one, who judges me for what I do, and I take full responsibility for any my action. If I will do wrong, it`s up to me to set things right, not up to Jesus to say - "Don`t worry, I forgive you." Thousand forgives will not fix one wrongdoing. But what if everyone thought like you do? What if everyone said to himself....'I am my own judge'..? What about people who have fewer morals than you?.....or no morals at all? ...Those that are vicious, cruel, selfish.....and say to themselves....'No one will see'? Is it right, in your opinion, that these people should 'regulate' their own morality, though it may differ greatly from yours?...and maybe affect you....because they decide to rob you, or assault your kids....or steal your car? Would some kind of 'universal moral law' not appeal to you in such circumstances? It is true, in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishamael Posted June 18, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2007 People with "fewer morals", as you put it, do not give respects to ten testaments in any case. Nor do they particularly care for "impending judgement". So, yes, if everyone thought like I do, it would be much more honest world. Most morals - like don`t kill or don`t steal, were born from social living in ancient ages, where they were (as well as still are) common sense. Killing or stealing in your tribe would most likely end up with you being tribe`s next meal. But, obviously, those morals are only applicable in certain circumstances, when common sense suggests they are sound ideas. Universal morals idea is inherently flawed one - for simple reason, that it`s impossible to concieve moral norms, which would regulate every possible situation. Therefore, all morals are relative to current situation. As for your example with people wishing to steal from me or kill me or someone I care about... Quite simply, I will suggest following - "You can try, but if I`ll catch you trespassing on my domain with intent I deem evil, I will mete out justice as I see fit." I recognise same right with anyone, and I am prepared to enforce my own justice, should I need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetycakes Posted June 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 162 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,850 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Online Birthday: 03/23/1964 Share Posted June 18, 2007 . Most morals - like don`t kill or don`t steal, were born from social living in ancient ages, where they were (as well as still are) common sense. Killing or stealing in your tribe would most likely end up with you being tribe`s next meal. B You are a hoot, Ishamael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted June 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2007 Don`t judge, lest you be judged. I see no reason to exclude God from this rule. If he were to judge me, I would exert my judgement over him. Yeah, you do that. Maybe He will let you be God on alternate days. May I interest you in some oceanfront property in Phoenix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted June 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2007 Seriously, though. One has to be in need of forgiveness and judgement to subscribe to Jesus. It is not my way. I`m the only one, who judges me for what I do, and I take full responsibility for any my action. If I will do wrong, it`s up to me to set things right, not up to Jesus to say - "Don`t worry, I forgive you." Thousand forgives will not fix one wrongdoing. You are SO in need of forgiveness.....I hope you find it. Do you seriously believe you're the one person in all of history who is his own judge? You may not believe in Him.......but He believes in you. And He is the one you must ultimately face, as we all do, when your day comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishamael Posted June 18, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2007 If that is so.... So I will. I would not be a person, if I were not able to stand up for what I deem just to everyone. He may forgive me as much as he wishes. It`s MY forgiveness, that matters to me. And I will forgive myself, as I`ll set right all that I`ve screwed up. Or die in process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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