georgesbluegirl Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,234 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1987 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Sorry to divert the topic further, but it's worth pointing out that Jesus probably had prominent followers who were women who were simply not given a great amount of attention in the Gospels (remember: inspired by God, written through the lens of the men of the time). "Mary Magdalene" as she is talked of today is actually a synthesis of three figures from the Gospel - one of them was a wealthy woman who was one of Jesus' biggest supporters (thanks for making one of the strongest women in the Bible a whore, Pope Gregory...) And yes, the fact that women aren't ordained (I'm Catholic) has always really bothered me. I asked a bishop about it once and the response I got was "if God wants it to happen, it will." Well sure, but we need to start using our brains too. God leaves a lot of the management up to us...plus back in the day (waaaay back) women used to be deacons. I think you'll see that return in the Catholic Church in the next fifty years, there's a good amount of support for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
followerofjesus Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,013 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/08/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 I love a person who knows how to submit. The natural order of things is what gains honr, dignity , & respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgesbluegirl Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,234 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1987 Share Posted November 3, 2006 By "person" do you mean "woman?" Because submission is for everybody, not just those of the female persuasion. Submission to God, submission to one another in a marriage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
followerofjesus Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,013 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/08/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 exactly blue girl ,people who sustain this characteristic have the ability to live in perfect harmony women included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Hi Secondeve, I believe that women and men are called to different roles in scripture as far as the role in the organization of the Church itself (not roles in society or family etc). One of the things that will be a sticking point is that we do have pretty clear scripture that only men are to be in the position of Bishops, Deacons and Elders. In fact the requirements for those positions are spelled out specifically, one of those is that it is to be a husband of one wife. Now in Christianity itself there has been a debate about this. Some Christian groups, mainly the mainline Protestants Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc started ordaining women in the 1950's. On the other side other Christian groups who probably try to adhere more closely to ancient tradition and scripture did not and do not ordain women, these would include the Eastern Orthodox Church, Roman Catholics, Southern Baptists, Reform, Conservative Lutherans (Lutherans are split), Anabaptists such as Amish, and some others. There is a third set, which I think are also represented on Worthy, which include Charismatic, and some Evangelicals, which do indeed ordain women. For me, I am a traditionalist and fall into the second group. I think scripture is pretty clear on it. But I also don't consider it a huge issue if someone disagrees with me on the topic. I think Georgesgirl mentioned Catholics. Well although women are not in the hierarchy, they run some of the largest Catholic institutions, such as hospitals, Catholic social services, legal, etc. For me it is along the same lines as Buddhists who do segregate male and female monastic traditions, and of course the leadership is male, it is not because they see women as inferior it is just different roles. For me the key is that whatever we do, we do it for the right reasons and for a Christian that must be that it is based on the Word of God alone. I think the worst thing we can do is do things for secular political reasons, or because of what is popular right now or what is politically correct in society. Once we go down that road we are lost in my opinion. If people want a political group they don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigalson123 Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/22/1965 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Why dont you think Christianity is moral? Top of the list would be the Calvinist notion of unconditional election. There are plenty of morally suspect parts of the Bible of course. then you believe that Calvinism isn't moral. Calvinism isn't Christianity, although it's based on the Bible. I would hope that you could tell the difference. There is evidence aplenty that the doctrine of election isn't consistent with the tenents of the Bible. Considering that Joshua said, Joshua 24:15 15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD." so that statement alone should tell you we have the ability to decide, but there are many other references Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi770 Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 119 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,316 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/01/1970 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Secondeve, I'm not saying I'm a women's liber- but I couldn't handle being degraded by anyone. If I was in a religion would imply a church orginization to me, if they mistreat me, they also mistreat the one to whom I love (Jesus) if they don't welcome me that don't welcome him. If they mistreat me-God will repay. THis is not to say that I don't follow the general rules, but if I don't feel welcome then I have the right to leave. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom, not a liciense to sin-but I find that God gives me much liberty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 Calvinism is a doctrine that isnt accepted by everyone. Sure. Belief in calvinism isnt a salvational issue. This seems to be irrelevant to whether or not Christianity is moral. Your issue here is with a doctrine of men, not the bible. You may feel this way, but obviously many Christians think that Calvinism is the doctrine of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2006 Alright - not that I've never rambled right the heck away from the original point of a topic, but perhaps, Ayin or Process, one of you could start a new thread? What you're discussing is really interesting and I think a lot more people might like to comment if they knew where to find the discussion. Yes, sorry to go off topic in your thread. I will start a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansasdad Posted November 3, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,227 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/19/1964 Share Posted November 3, 2006 The problem is that we are thinking just like the Pharisees of Jesus time. The wanted a Messiah that would come and correct all the wrongs of the world, a king that would change everything. But what Jesus said was that the servant should obey the master, the slave should be the best slave possible, hardly PC statements. You see Jesus came to save your very soul. Your station in life is so irrelevant when compared. What you need to understand is that Jesus came to change "You". A constantly reoccurring theme is that we are all to be servants, and that the greatest among us will be a servant. He obviously measures greatness differently than we do. So then who is being degraded, if the greatest is the servant. Of whom does he call upon to be the servant, to be the greatest. The problem is not that the Bible degrades women it is that the world has screwed up what is valuable and what is not. In fact if a woman has succeded by the worlds standards she has degraded herself to the point of being worthless. God Bless, Kansas Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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