Defense Chief Gates breaks unwritten rule

[Matthitjah]

Quote Reuters alertnet.org;

Israelis piqued by Gates nuclear "confirmation"

07 Dec 2006 13:55:55 GMT

Source: Reuters

Printable view | Email this article | RSS [-] Text [+]

Background

Iraq in turmoil

More By Dan Williams

JERUSALEM, Dec 7 (Reuters) - Robert Gates, the incoming U.S. secretary of defense, won plaudits in Washington this week for his candour on the Iraq war.

Some Israelis were less pleased, however, to hear Gates mention with equal frankness what U.S. administrations have long avoided saying in public -- that the Jewish state has the Middle East's only nuclear arsenal.

To be fair, it was pretty oblique.

During his Senate confirmation hearing on Tuesday, Gates mentioned why Iran might be seeking the means to build an atomic bomb: "They are surrounded by powers with nuclear weapons: Pakistan to their east, the Russians to the north, the Israelis to the west and us in the Persian Gulf," he said.

The remark led Israeli news bulletins. State-run radio suggested Gates may have breached a U.S. "don't ask, don't tell" policy that dates back to the late 1960s.

"It's quite unprecedented," a retired Israeli diplomat told Reuters on Thursday when asked about Gates's testimony. "I can only assume he has yet to get to grips with the understandings that exist between us and the Americans."

According to recently declassifed documents cited by the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists magazine, under President Richard Nixon the United States knew Israel had developed nuclear weapons but opted against pressing its ally to come clean on the capability and accept international regulation.

Israel neither confirms nor denies having the bomb as part of a "strategic ambiguity" policy that it says fends off numerically superior enemies while avoiding an arms race.

This sanctioned reticence is a major irritant for Arabs and Iran, which see a double-standard in U.S. policy in the region.

U.S. AID

By not declaring itself to be nuclear armed, Israel also skirts a U.S. ban on funding countries that proliferate weapons of mass destruction. It can thus enjoy more than $2 billion in annual military and other aid from Washington.

Though Gates was appointed as part of a move by U.S. President George W. Bush to revitalise prospects for Iraq and a wider peace in the Middle East, no one has yet gone as far as to propose openly that Washington review Israel's open secret.

"I am not aware of any change in U.S. policy on discussing Israel and its nuclear capability," said Stewart Tuttle, spokesman for the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv.

Shimon Peres, who helped found Israel's main atomic reactor in the 1950s, officially for civilian use, and is now senior deputy to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, sounded similarly unperturbed.

"This announcement makes no fundamental difference," he told Israel Radio. "

"Whether or not Israel has nuclear weapons, the fact is that Israel is the only country threatened with destruction ... Israel is not threatening any country. Weapons do not fire themselves, people fire them."

He was apparently referring to arch-foe Iran, whose President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has called for the elimination of the "Zionist regime" but denied his country seeks nuclear arms.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L07899735.htm

Peace,

Dave

[PBfoot]

I don't think it's correct to call this Israel the people of God, since they patently reject Jesus as the Messiah and are clearly all about a physical state. Jesus castigated them 2000 years ago for looking for political freedom rather than spiritual freedom. And I think it is really wrong that we support them without their having nuclear weapons, much less since they have them. If we want to spend money protecting innocent people, what about Rwanda or Darfur?

[GeneV]

I don't think it's correct to call this Israel the people of God, since they patently reject Jesus as the Messiah and are clearly all about a physical state. Jesus castigated them 2000 years ago for looking for political freedom rather than spiritual freedom. And I think it is really wrong that we support them without their having nuclear weapons, much less since they have them. If we want to spend money protecting innocent people, what about Rwanda or Darfur?

Seems our first duty to the people of Israel is to proclaim the gospel. I am in agreement with much of what what you say here. The policies of their government are very questionable. Israel is a secular nation despite what many beleive. It is the individual Jew that must come to Christ. Christ saves us on an individual basis, not a national one.

Guys,

I have to say I normally refrain from interfering or posting on subjects relating to the USA and its policies,which I clearly have no right to do not being a citizen of your great country. In this case however, may I say that it is extremely refreshing to read your views on the subject. Your focus is truly unblinkered.

[GeneV]

The U.N. Security Council authorized an African force to protect Somalia's weak government against an increasingly powerful Islamic militia, hoping to restore peace and avert a broader conflict in the region.

http://www.worthynews.com/news/msnbc-msn-com-id-16081544-/

I don't think it's correct to call this Israel the people of God, since they patently reject Jesus as the Messiah and are clearly all about a physical state. Jesus castigated them 2000 years ago for looking for political freedom rather than spiritual freedom. And I think it is really wrong that we support them without their having nuclear weapons, much less since they have them. If we want to spend money protecting innocent people, what about Rwanda or Darfur?

Seems our first duty to the people of Israel is to proclaim the gospel. I am in agreement with much of what what you say here. The policies of their government are very questionable. Israel is a secular nation despite what many beleive. It is the individual Jew that must come to Christ. Christ saves us on an individual basis, not a national one.

I don't think it's correct to call this Israel the people of God, since they patently reject Jesus as the Messiah and are clearly all about a physical state. Jesus castigated them 2000 years ago for looking for political freedom rather than spiritual freedom. And I think it is really wrong that we support them without their having nuclear weapons, much less since they have them. If we want to spend money protecting innocent people, what about Rwanda or Darfur?

Seems our first duty to the people of Israel is to proclaim the gospel. I am in agreement with much of what what you say here. The policies of their government are very questionable. Israel is a secular nation despite what many beleive. It is the individual Jew that must come to Christ. Christ saves us on an individual basis, not a national one.

Hi Guys,

I generally avoid stating any opinion on the policies of the USA political or otherwise - I don't believe I am qualified to do so (not being a citizen of your great country). In this case I make an exception - your views are truly refreshing in that the focus is not about who has or does not have nuclear weapons but on the centrality of the Christ. "Christ saves us on an individual basis, not a national one."

[GeneV]

The U.N. Security Council authorized an African force to protect Somalia's weak government against an increasingly powerful Islamic militia, hoping to restore peace and avert a broader conflict in the region.

http://www.worthynews.com/news/msnbc-msn-com-id-16081544-/

I don't think it's correct to call this Israel the people of God, since they patently reject Jesus as the Messiah and are clearly all about a physical state. Jesus castigated them 2000 years ago for looking for political freedom rather than spiritual freedom. And I think it is really wrong that we support them without their having nuclear weapons, much less since they have them. If we want to spend money protecting innocent people, what about Rwanda or Darfur?

Seems our first duty to the people of Israel is to proclaim the gospel. I am in agreement with much of what what you say here. The policies of their government are very questionable. Israel is a secular nation despite what many beleive. It is the individual Jew that must come to Christ. Christ saves us on an individual basis, not a national one.

I don't think it's correct to call this Israel the people of God, since they patently reject Jesus as the Messiah and are clearly all about a physical state. Jesus castigated them 2000 years ago for looking for political freedom rather than spiritual freedom. And I think it is really wrong that we support them without their having nuclear weapons, much less since they have them. If we want to spend money protecting innocent people, what about Rwanda or Darfur?

Seems our first duty to the people of Israel is to proclaim the gospel. I am in agreement with much of what what you say here. The policies of their government are very questionable. Israel is a secular nation despite what many beleive. It is the individual Jew that must come to Christ. Christ saves us on an individual basis, not a national one.

Hi Guys,

I generally avoid stating any opinion on the policies of the USA political or otherwise - I don't believe I am qualified to do so (not being a citizen of your great country). In this case I make an exception - your views are truly refreshing in that the focus is not about who has or does not have nuclear weapons but on the centrality of the Christ. "Christ saves us on an individual basis, not a national one."

Sorry Mods - duplicate post - I seem to be having a blonde day

[Guest shiloh357]

Part of the problem here is that people, particularly Christians do not seem to understand the difference between unconditional support of Israel and unconditional love. No one on this board is dumb enough to be believe that Israel is perfect and we do not support Israel because we believe that Israel is above doing any wrong, or because we agree with every policy that the Israeli government employs, or that we believe that Israel is beyond criticism, though that charge is leveled against us on a regular basis

Some issues, raised in this thread, need to be addressed a little more fully.

Are the physical Jews still the people of God? Is Israel still God's nation? The answer to both questions is yes. Some Christians" use the fact that the Jews have not received the gospel as a platform to say that they should not be considered the people of God. Their rejection of the gospel is cited as justification for the "Christian" rejection of Israel. It is Christians, not God, who has rejected Israel, and in this, they have penciled in what they see as requirements for Israel as a nation to be considered God's people, or God's nation. Interesting, because the Bible nowhere makes such a thing, in fact, the Bible says the opposite.

In the OT endtime Bible prophecies, God's hand is clearly upon Israel. In the first book of the Bible to mention the New Covenant, Jeremiah, in the very chapter about the New Covenant relative to Israel and Judah and the physical restoration of the Jews to the Land, it says this about natural, national Israel:

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever.

(Jeremiah 31:35-36)

Israel will cease to be the God's nation when the stars cease to be, when the sun and the waves cease to exist. The only way to destroy Israel as God's people is for the world, and the indeed, the entire universe to cease to exist, according to Jeremiah. The OT book of Ezekiel, furthermore, shows us in chapters 36 and 37, that the restoration of Israel to the Land by God's Hand, will occur at a time when Israel is in a state of unbelief, not when they have received the Messiah. Not only that, but during the war of Gog and Magog and their coalition of the nations in Ezekiel 38 (which has not happened yet), God refers to Israel as "my people" in verse 16. Even in the last days, unbelieving Israel is still called "God's people" by God Himself. The Bible clearly demonstrates that Israel will find their Messiah after their return and restoration to the Land of Israel.

God is a Zionist. As such, Christians should be Zionists as well. Unfortunately many well-meaning Christians don't believe the Bible, and prefer to lean on the anti-Israel, liberal, Jew hating media for their understanding of the conflict waged against Israel, and then they read that flawed position into the Bible. This conflict, in the public arena, is constantly stood on its head, and distorted and most of the truth regarding it is simply brushed aside... if it gets to see the light of day at all.

Yes, Israel has nuclear weapons, but how often do we hear Israel getting on TV and saying that Saudi Arabia or some other country should be wiped off the map? When has Israel ever tried to use its nuclear arsenal to affect the foreign policies of other nations towards the Arabs? When has Israel ever gotten on TV and threatened to use their weapons unless international community acquiesces to some insane demand? There is a difference in Israel's handling of the nuclear arsenal and the brazenness of the Muslim world when it gets ahold of such technology. Israel did not throw their nuclear weight around, in the Middle East, even they could have easily done so.

Iran is not the only Middle East country interested in obtaining nukes. Egypt and Syria are also looking into this. Yet, Iran, Syria and Egypt are signatories on the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. Iran is violation of that international treaty, as was Iraq (also a signatory on the NPT) yet this glaring fact seems to just fly under the radar. The world criticizes Israel for not signing the NPT, but this exactly why they didn't. Israel, if they had signed, would be held accountable to it, while her enemies who also signed would go on to produce Nuclear weapons with no accountability whatsoever. Israel's nukes are there to offset the imbalance between Israel and her enemies that outnumber her 100 to 1.

BTW, the US does not "fund" the Israeli military. Israel purchases our weapons and then modifies them and actually makes them better. One reason that most in congress are not likely to withdraw support for Israel is because of lucrative contracts our weapons factories have to make weapons that will be purchased by Israel. The foreign aid package we send to Israel does not represent even 5% of Israel's purchasing power. An economy like Israel's which has GDP of $156.9 billion would not be affected in any significant way if the US foreign aid package was no longer offered. Frankly, the sooner Israel gets off US foreign aid, the better. Israel doesn't need it. Israel has enough ingenuity to make it without the US. Many of Israel's best weapons were not made or invented in the United States, The ARROW II anti-missile system, the Merkava IV battle tank, and several other weapons are purely Israeli and are some of the best in the world.

Israel has their own problems, and not every Israeli policy is good. Israel's mistakes, however, have usually been made in a sincere attempt to defend itself against the intolerance of Islam that says Israel should not even exist. When one studies this conflict, it becomes clear that many of Israel's questionable policies would never have come into existence in the first place had Israel not been subjected to 6 Arab instigated wars of annihilation, and 58 years of nonstop day and night terrorism. It is unfair to run off at the mouth about Israel's "questionable" policies without discussing those policies in the light and context of the war of annihilation being waged against Israel. It is also unfair to mention Israel's policies without acknowledging the risks Israel has taken and the sacrifices Israel has made for peace, only to be repaid with more bloodshed.

Stop using the "Gospel" as a smokescreen for your hatred of Israel. Stop pretending you care about the Palestinians when the truth is that your compassion for the Palestinians only exists insomuch as it provides you with a platform to smear Israel. Spreading the Gospel is not at odds with defending Israel's right to exist against the Arab world's campaign to see Israel wiped out. We can and should preach the Gospel to Israel, but we must also come to grips with the fact, that God is not finished with Israel and that his dealings with Israel are based upon an eternal covenant to which He has sworn Himself. We should support the nation (not necessarily the policies) and this is not at odds with the Bible at all, but is in obedience to it. Three times in the OT it is said of Israel, "Those who bless you, I will bless, and those who curse you, I will curse." We, the US are about to find out just how true this is.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

We can and should preach the Gospel to Israel, but we must also come to grips with the fact, that God is not finished with Israel and that his dealings with Israel are based upon an eternal covenant to which He has sworn Himself. We should support the nation (not necessarily the policies) and this is not at odds with the Bible at all, but is in obedience to it. Three times in the OT it is said of Israel, "Those who bless you, I will bless, and those who curse you, I will curse." We, the US are about to find out just how true this is.

Bless you brother Shiloh.

The fact of the matter is this. The U.S. Administration has taken a backseat to those whom aren't very tolerant towards Israel.

I am wondering who nominated James Baker to the position of Secretary of State?

As well it is clear that there are some including the new Defense Secretary who think it is Israel who is the problem and not the mad dogs surrounding her.

Gates mentioned why Iran might be seeking the means to build an atomic bomb: "They are surrounded by powers with nuclear weapons: Pakistan to their east, the Russians to the north, the Israelis to the west and us in the Persian Gulf,"

He just justified a mad, anti-semitic, foaming at the mouth, lunatic like Ahmadinejaad having dangerous weapons of mass Destruction simply because everyone else has them. However everyone else is not ranting and raving about the soon destruction of Israel. On top of that he broke a 60 year old tradition of keeping our friends and ally's close to our vest.

It is clear the path that we are choosing for the days ahead.

Appeasement does not work. It ony emboldens evil. Neither does revealing closely held secrets hold worth for anything more than Political points.

In the end America will wake up. I only pray it isn't too late. I also pray the cost isn't something more than we can even imagine at the moment. 9/11 was a nightmare. Yet we woke up shrugged it off and went right back to sleep. The latest attempt to return to pre 9/11 and pretend none of this happened is pathetic. The tune being played now is that it's all Israels fault. If they would only roll over and play dead this would all soon pass and the Islamo - Fascists would be so very peaceable.

I can't remember a time when the world hasn't been shaken by the results of these fanatics. And I was born in 1968.

Peace,

Dave

[nebula]

It looks more and more like Ezekiel 38 is on the way.

[PBfoot]

Well, God is pro-Israel, but the question is exactly WHO is Israel. St. Paul talks about conversion of Jews, true. But he also explains that the tree of Abraham (Chrildren of Israel) has many branches that will be cut off and thrown away and many other branches that were not part of the tree will be grafted in. In other words, faith is what makes a true Israelite. Therefore, all believers, both Jewish and non-Jewish, are Israelites. And so, says Paul, for the purpose of saving ALL ISRAEL, including all the gentile believers, the Jews were hardened.