rollinTHUNDER Posted November 28, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,986 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2003 But alas thru coveteouysness we will be made merchandise of physically as well. We are beholden to what we place our Faith in. I don't believe in the Pre Trib either. We will be refined. Where will you turn when you can't go to Wal Mart? The Israelites learned to rely on the Lord for their Manna from heaven. It sustained them even in the desert! Don't look back Dr. Luke, or you may turn into a pillar of salt! I fail to make the connection. Are you suggesting that they will take Wal-Mart away from us? Did they take Wal-Mart away from the Israelites? Will the church be refined when they take Wal-Mart away? On a more serious note, I think I would change banks if they are making an illegal profit from your money. By having direct deposit, my funds are available on Thursday at 8:00 a.m., but if I wanted the check, I wouldn't be able to get it until after 8:00 a.m. Friday morning. Here, it's an extra advantage. It appears your bank is just a tad crooked. I wonder if Wal-Mart will be able to refine your bank too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted November 28, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 But alas thru coveteouysness we will be made merchandise of physically as well. We are beholden to what we place our Faith in. I don't believe in the Pre Trib either. We will be refined. Where will you turn when you can't go to Wal Mart? The Israelites learned to rely on the Lord for their Manna from heaven. It sustained them even in the desert! Don't look back Dr. Luke, or you may turn into a pillar of salt! I fail to make the connection. Are you suggesting that they will take Wal-Mart away from us? Did they take Wal-Mart away from the Israelites? Will the church be refined when they take Wal-Mart away? On a more serious note, I think I would change banks if they are making an illegal profit from your money. By having direct deposit, my funds are available on Thursday at 8:00 a.m., but if I wanted the check, I wouldn't be able to get it until after 8:00 a.m. Friday morning. Here, it's an extra advantage. It appears your bank is just a tad crooked. I wonder if Wal-Mart will be able to refine your bank too? Thank you for finding that! I don't deny that God does "refine" us through trials and tribulations. I've been back walking with the Lord for a little over 2 years now and He has done a lot of refining on me!!! However, the thought that God would "refine" His church en masse via the auspices of the AntiChrist is totally out of line IMHO. We are not appointed unto wrath. I recieved a PM from Dad Ernie saying that the tribulation wasn't God's wrath so therefore pre and mid-tribbers were taking that out of context. If the tribulation isn't wrath, then what exactly is it? It is God's almighty righteous wrath poured out from Heaven above in judgement on a sinful world (not His church) and it is also His one last attempt in love to bring the lost to a saving revelation of Him. And simply because I believe pre-trib doesn't mean that I buy hook, line, and sinker into everything more notable pre-tribbers such as LaHaye and Hagee say. I've never seen LaHaye say that the mark would be forced upon Christians (other than a character in one of the Left Behind books and God removed it in the last installment) and even if he did, that is certainly not the same thing as saying that it is alright to take the mark because God will forgive you. Actually, therein also lies a problem for the once-saved, always saved debate. God apparently refuses forgiveness to those who take the mark, but if the church is exposed to the tribulation, according to the "once saved, always saved" philosophy, one could take the mark and be okay! I know the counter-argument is going to be a true Christian wouldn't take it and, frankly, I must agree, but for the sake of validity, isn't that the what OSAS could mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted November 28, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2003 Greetings Brethren, Go on Rollin. Long time no spar brother. I do love you. I will not spar over this anymore. My thought is we may all soon find out! I am changing banks. Did you follow the link I posted. Go on Google one time and punch up RFID and see if it doesn't lead you to Wal Mart? Not that they are headquarters for the antichrist or anything. They are just coveteoussly leading the way in the latest technology that draws us closer. Also everytime the wind blows around here. And it has a lot lately. Wal Mart and Home Depot get clobbered. You gonna run to Wal mart and have your micro chip removed with the latest micro chip removing tool? Or are you gonna rely on Christ to stregthen your Faith? Hold fast to Jesus brethren. He is never closer than He is today. Critical scripture here; Re Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted November 28, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 Dr. Luke, Greetings to you brother! I don't doubt that the RFID technology is at hand. Snopes (who I don't necessarily agree with) says that is a falsehood on the Wal-Mart deal. Frankly, I figure it's the real deal myself-seems like a better way to track merchandise and who knows is the blasted thing is turned off for real? However, the highlighted Scriptures do not by any means state that the Church will be here. When an unbelieving world sees the mass exodus of millions upon millions of people, many will have their eyes opened and will turn to Christ. There will be many who will not as well. We could be literally looking at millions of Tribulations Saints. When we see the population of China alone is over 1 billion people, that number is not hard to swallow. These people will be refined so to speak. Many will come to God out of fear no doubt over what has happened. Among those will be many like I was until a little over two years ago. They once knew God but chose instead to walk in their own ways intending to "some day" turn back to God. I assure you, Dr. Luke, (and I'm sure you don't need assured!!! ) God has allowed some major testing of my faith to see just how well I would hold up! Proud to say I'm still here and still serving Him! It will be people like these who will give their very life for Christ on the chopping block, not Christians of today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsitmean Posted November 28, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 881 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2003 I read Dr. Luke saying that God would going to "purify" the church or something to that extent via the auspices of the tribulation. Wasn't I purified by the blood of Christ? Why would God en masse make EVERY Christian on the face of the earth face such an all or nothing test? You got that right. The test for the Church is right now. Living for God in this fallen world. If that test alone isn't all or nothing enough for us, then we're not ready for persecution. Post-Tribers use the line "why should we be delivered from persecution when it has been the experience for centuries the church has gone through. Are we better than them?" No, but if we get all this perceived "blessing" and purification of the tribulation and they didn't, wouldn't that make us more privileged? As for this cashless business, I don't think the mark and cashless are linked together. The purpose of the mark is a visible identity with the beast. It is a litmus test of your political/religious orientation. The sign at McDonalds will be changed to "NO SHOES; NO SHIRT; NO MARK; NO SERVICE. Too many places lack the technology to go cashless but it will be illegal to do business with someone who does not have the mark. It might even start out as being completely voluntary. The big selling point to chip implants or finger imprints on smart cards is to confirm identity. This is linked to perceived threats like terrorism and identity theft or the steeling of your purchasing power like credit cards or bank account information. This last problem is the one that I feel most vulnerable too. That is because they keep coming up with more ways to increase exposure to the risk. I'm reasonably comfortable with an ATM (AuntiM my son calls it). As long as my pin number is secure, my risk is low. A debit card with a VISA logo is another story. Anyone who gets a hold of that card can wipe out our account in one purchase with a fake signature and I have no recourse, I loose it all. Now they have gone a step farther with electronic transfers. Some places won't accept paper checks any more. They scan the numbers on a check and you sign for the purchase just like a debit card. Banks create this problem so they can offer the solution with an implant. The problem for the consumer is that the implant provides more services than just identity. Services that are of no benefit to me at all. In the name of protecting my identity, they steel my privacy. The patience of the Saints. Wait why if they won't be here are they warned not to take a mark they will never see? Different saints Dave. It's not the Church. You have to understand ecclesiology to get your eschatology right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted November 28, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 I read Dr. Luke saying that God would going to "purify" the church or something to that extent via the auspices of the tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted November 28, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 28, 2003 Bless you Saints, 2Pe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 -- Gary, can you find that quote from LaHaye for me? I don't question that you heard it but I'm just trying to make sure of exactly what context it was said in. Even with taking LaHaye out of the picture, I'm still pre-trib and so is this man: hey bro. NO fight--about pre---mid--post----- i'm not too sure on that quote exactly where i read it --i have a lot of websites i go to & i just didn't copy that one i guess---it's been awhile but I WILL FIND IT FOR YOU----WHO'S the guy on the tape??? letters too small fer me ta see------ole-aged--ya-nose???---BLESSINGS--BRO.--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 --would "refine" His church en masse via the auspices of the AntiChrist is totally out of line IMHO. We are not appointed unto wrath. there IS a difference between the "wrath of the devil" poured out against the church--"christians-AND -the WRATH OF GOD poured out on an UNREPENTENT WORLD--where they call for the rocks & the mountains - -to fall on them & hide them from HIM who sits on the throne... -REV.2.vs.26--------- -And he that overcometh,and keepeth my works unto the end,to him will I give power over the nations; -REV.3.vs.19------ -As many as I love,I rebuke and chasten;be zealous therefore,and repent... -REV.6.vs.9-10-11------------- -And when he had opened the fifth seal,I saw under the alter the souls of them that were slain -for the word of GOD,and for the testimony which they held;-- -And they cried with a loud voice,saying,How long,O LORD,holy and true,dost thou not judge and avenge our -blood on them that dwell on the earth?? -And white robes were given to every one of them;and it was said unto them,that they should rest yet for a little season,until their fellowservants also and their brethren,that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled..... -REV.9.vs.4--------- -And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth,neither any green thing, -neither any tree;but only those men which have not the seal of GOD in their foreheads---- -REV.12.vss.10b.-11-13----- -10b.-for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,which accused them before our GOD day and night----- -11--and they overcame him by the blood of the LAMB,and by the word of their testimony; ----and they loved not their lives unto the death...... vs.13-And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth,he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child...... -REV.16.vs.9-10-11-------- -And men were scorched with great heat,and blasphemed the name of GOD,which hath power -over these plagues;and they repented not to give him glory..... -And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast;and his kingdom was full -of darkness;and they gnawed their tongues for pain, -And blasphemed the GOD of heaven because of their pains and their sores, -and repented not of their deeds....... -REV.18.vs.4----------- -And I heard another voice from heaven saying,Come out of her, my people,that ye be not -partakers of her sin,and that ye receive not of her plagues......-- -I know you didn't want this thread to turn into a pre-mid-post-trib. debate & I'M not pushing for ANY position -just wanted you to have something to "THINK" about & maybe DR.LUKE or GMAN can move this to where it -shoud be----"IF" its interesting enough??????GOD=BLESS-----------Gary-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 --Different saints Dave. It's not the Church. You have to understand ecclesiology to get your eschatology right. DIFFERENT SAINTS???????WHERE DO IT SAY ANYTHING LIKE ---DIFFERENT SAINTS???? ONLY those SAINTS that have on WHITE ROBES RULE FOR 1,000YEARS WITH JESUS---- -REV.14.vs.12-------- -Here is the patience of the "saints";here are they that keep the -commandments of GOD and the faith of JESUS..... -And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,Write,Blessed are the dead which die -in the LORD from henceforth;Yea,saith the SPIRIT,that they may rest from -their labours;and their works do follow them...... -I don't know about or have ever heard about;{ecclesiology} I do know about eschatology AND I can read -& understand what GOD'S WORD states clearly-------too many chiefs not enough Indians-------------- HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL--------GOD-BLESS------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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