st. Worm Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 No cop out here sweetie. Shalom SW, Of course it's a cop-out darling. Why don't you answer my questions now? So do you keep all of the Old Testament laws? I already did. Would you please read my replies? We are talking about the Sabbath SW. Please stay on topic. No, I don't follow all the OT laws. If not then why not? Again, I already answered this. Because they don't all apply anymore. Some do and some don't. The Sabbath day is part of the 10 Commandments which DO still apply. Please stay on topic. If one is applicable to Christians then all are. Actually, that is not at all true. That is a misconception. That is not correct hermeneutics. The Bible must be interpreted as to the time, person, context etc. Not all the OT laws still apply, but the Sabbath does. Please focus on the Sabbath. You still have not answered if you keep the Sabbath perfectly and without fail. I don't think you have. Well, then you would be wrong. When you come to my home and observe what we do for the Sabbath, THEN you can make that judgment. Until then, you are making false assumptions based on ignorance. Are you ready to accept the penalty for not doing so? There are no penalties. You are confused and mistaken. Please stop kidding around and answer some questions for a change. I answer all questions put to me. And who is kidding! I'm serious. Will you please stop making false accusations and bringing in Straw Man arguments and stay on topic? And you really believe that the purpose of Jesus was to be our example? Ummm, go back and read EXACTLY what I wrote SW. That's not it. And I do believe what I wrote, or I wouldn't have written it. I can't figure out if you are a Seven Day Adventist or Jewish-lite! Please tell me where you draw the line on the Law, which sections you are keeping and which ones are discarded. Also what was Paul talking about in the verse I posted? How do you deal with that? As an addendum why don't we have a reasonable discussion about how the Sabbath is actually treated in the New Testament, by Jesus himself and by the historic catholic church. To merely say Christians should follow God's Old Testament commands today as a basis for maintaining the Sabbath as practiced by Jews puts you on rather dangerous ground. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 I can't figure out if you are a Seven Day Adventist or Jewish-lite! Shalom, That's because you're wrong on BOTH counts! Don't waste your brain on trying to pigeon-hole me SW. Just read the words I write instead of trying to make me fit into a box. Please tell me where you draw the line on the Law, which sections you are keeping and which ones are discarded. No SW. The topic is SABBATH. I refuse to let you hijack this thread with your debate on the OT laws. That issue is not the topic of this thread. Start another thread if you want that debate. As an addendum why don't we have a reasonable discussion about how the Sabbath is actually treated in the New Testament, by Jesus himself and by the historic catholic church. So, start one. But don't use this thread to do it. To merely say Christians should follow God's Old Testament commands today as a basis for maintaining the Sabbath as practiced by Jews puts you on rather dangerous ground. We obviously cannot have a "reasonable" thread if you won't read what I am actually writing instead of adding your own spin to it. I did not say that at all. In fact, I refuted it the several times you threw it at me. As far as "dangerous ground", well, that's really funny. I stand on the Word of G-d. There could be no more stable and desirable ground to be on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DYChowmah Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Hi st Worm Col. 2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. [16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Is this the scripture you have trouble understanding? Its fairly simple to understand should you let scripture interpret scripture. If you simply put your own interpretation on a single line of scripture.....Well the bible itself says not to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 18, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2007 Hi st Worm Col. 2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. [16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Is this the scripture you have trouble understanding? Its fairly simple to understand should you let scripture interpret scripture. If you simply put your own interpretation on a single line of scripture.....Well the bible itself says not to do so. I am having no trouble understanding this passage. I agree it is fairly simple to understand. What I can't understand is why some still believe in Sabbath keeping from a Jewish perspective. If this is still applicable for Christians I wonder why every mention of the Sabbath in the New Testament indicates that it is not applicable for Christians. If it is so important for Christians to keep the Sabbath in that way you would think there would be an abundance of directives to do so. Its just the opposite in actuality. And by the way what do you mean that the Bible says we are not to interpret Scripture? That is exactly what we are supposed to do. Anything we read whether its War and Peace or the Bible requires interpretation. How do you do it, by osmosis? sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2007 I am having no trouble understanding this passage. I agree it is fairly simple to understand. What I can't understand is why some still believe in Sabbath keeping from a Jewish perspective. Shalom, Do you have a problem with Jews? Jesus KEPT the Sabbath. So, there's nothing wrong with the "Jewish perspective", although I believe you mean, the unsaved Jewish perspective. However, the Bible is G-d's Word and if you believe in G-d, the whole Bible is applicable in some way. The Sabbath is part of the 10 Commandments. They still stand. All of them. Including the Sabbath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 18, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2007 I am having no trouble understanding this passage. I agree it is fairly simple to understand. What I can't understand is why some still believe in Sabbath keeping from a Jewish perspective. Shalom, Do you have a problem with Jews? Jesus KEPT the Sabbath. So, there's nothing wrong with the "Jewish perspective", although I believe you mean, the unsaved Jewish perspective. However, the Bible is G-d's Word and if you believe in G-d, the whole Bible is applicable in some way. The Sabbath is part of the 10 Commandments. They still stand. All of them. Including the Sabbath. No. You are completely ignoring the New Testament including the passage I supplied. Get off your high horse and discuss instead of sounding like a parrot. The 10 Commandments in the OT biblical form were not given to Christians or even Old Testament Gentiles. There is no requirement for Christians to keep a Saturday Sabbath. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie B Posted August 18, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 119 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/03/1951 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Hi Vickilynn, I was just anwsering your comments the best way I could. I believe that their are certain promises given to Israel only, and certain promises given only to the N.T. Church. But in regards to the Sabbath. In their writings to the churches, the Apostles only mentioned the sabbath three times. (1) The sabbath is a symbol of salvation rest in Christ (Heb. 4). (2) The N.T. believer is not bound to keep the sabbath (Col 2:9-17). (3) The N.T. believer has liberty in the matter of holy days (Ro 14:1-23). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2007 No. You are completely ignoring the New Testament including the passage I supplied. Get off your high horse and discuss instead of sounding like a parrot. The 10 Commandments in the OT biblical form were not given to Christians or even Old Testament Gentiles. There is no requirement for Christians to keep a Saturday Sabbath. sw Shalom Sw, You are SO funny! You don't hear very well do you? You also don't read very well, for you are inventing things I've never said. Please, I challenge you to produce ONE post where I ever said Christians are required to keep a Saturday Sabbath. Just one. Go ahead. You owe me an apology, but I won't hold my breath! And YOU are completely ignoring the words of Jesus which says that He did not come to abolish the Law. How you can get around that I have no idea, but I'll take Jesus' words rather than yours. The 10 Commandments stand. They were never rescinded. You need to understand the WHOLE counsel of G-d is found in His Word, from Genesis to Revelation. Some Christians, perhaps like yourself, like to try to disregard the OT, but G-d does not. It is ALL His Word, and ALL Scripture is beneficial. Below Paul talks to Timothy about the "sacred writings." You think that was the NT? Not hardly!!! 2 Timothy 3: 14 But as for you,continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. And I like parrots. I also like horses, high or low. They are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2007 Looks like this is a very popular topic. And what you said is exactly how I observe the Sabbath and how others should as well. I keep the 7th day Sabbath because it is one of the 10 Commandments. If one believes that the 10 Commandments are still standing, then they have to include 7th day Sabbath observance. With all due respect to my Christian brethren here, Sunday observance does not fulfill the 4th Commandment. The 4th Commandment, like the other 9 commandments, are not subject to change. There is nothing wrong with having prayer and worship on other days of the week, if it is in addition to Sabbath observance, not a replacement of it. Shalom JD, Amen. You and I agree on these points!! Can you believe it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2007 Hi Vickilynn, I was just anwsering your comments the best way I could. I believe that their are certain promises given to Israel only, and certain promises given only to the N.T. Church. But in regards to the Sabbath. In their writings to the churches, the Apostles only mentioned the sabbath three times. (1) The sabbath is a symbol of salvation rest in Christ (Heb. 4). (2) The N.T. believer is not bound to keep the sabbath (Col 2:9-17). (3) The N.T. believer has liberty in the matter of holy days (Ro 14:1-23). Shalom Eddie, I really appreciate your replies, thank you. Your posts are very good and have such a sweet spirit! Yes, I agree that there were/are promises to Israel only. However, Sabbath is not only for the Jews. You see, there are some things that are applicable to Jews and Gentiles (IN JESUS), that is the Church. The 10 commandments are one of those things. And Sabbath is one of those 10. Also, Jesus observed the Sabbath. Also, Jesus did say that He did not come abolish the Law, but to fulfill (which does not mean take away). G-d never rescinded the Sabbath rest, and so I believe it is valuable for the Church to observe and glorify Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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