nebula Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 8, 2007 The people I see getting silenced in these debates have honest doubts that we could answer if we would just take the time. Odd. The ones I've seen deleted are from posters who have shown themselves to be anything but seeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I have a question. Does God actually talk to you? I was a believer once, and I was a strict believer, but I never got any communication from God. Not words, or anything spiritual. It was very disappointing. The hardest part about hearing from the Lord is recognizing His voice. Very rarely will the Lord speak in what we perceive as an audible voice in our physical ears. Most often, His communication passes through our brains as thoughts, impressions, "daydreams", and such. We mistake his voice for our own imaginations. I know my main struggle is when I try to quiet my mind. My mind doesn't quiet down to well. I will ask the Lord for answers or directions or something specific, but my own speculations keep getting in the way of receiving from the Lord. Oddly, it's easier for me to hear the Lord when I'm not concentrating on trying to hear. I tend to recognize the interjection came from the Lord because it had a relevance I know I could not conjure up. For instance, when Clinton was president, I saw a bumper sticker: "Jack Kavorkian ["Dr. Death"] for White House Chief Surgeon." I, a Republican, laughed. In my thoughts I heard a harsh rebuke : "That's murder." I knew this thought came from the Holy Spirit. My own subconsious wasn't even considering this concept by any means. In my heart I fell to my knees in repentance (I say in my heart because at the time I was driving, and I couldn't exactly maneuver my body into this position. ). But that's an example of the the Lord speaking. If you are looking for bells and whistles, you aren't going to find it. The Lord works in us mysteriously to provoke us to seek Him. Otherwise we'd grow fat and complacent in our walk with Him. I would like to encourage you not to let your heart faint. We all must travel through the Wilderness at times in our walk. Sometimes we climb mountains and other times we pass through valleys. But the hardest is wandering the desert. Our strength is dry, our lips are parched, and we think God has forsaken us. (Just like the Israelites after having been delivered from Egypt - we lose our trust in the one who saved us.) It is easy to lose hope and give up. But if you persevere to the end, you won't believe the blessings on the other side! I've learned to find, figuratively speaking, the water holes in the desert. I've also learned to see the beauty in the desert. Although it's not my favorite place to be, it is no longer as horrible and frightening as it used to be. I pray you find the pools of water you need to see that the Lord hasn't abandoned you. You won't find Him in all this rationality babble. You will find Him in the moments of your life you cry out to Him from a heart of desperation and purity. Prayers and blessings to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2007 Grace to you, That is very good to hear, and I'm glad that God helped clear this up for you. I want more than anything to hear God speak to me, in some way or another. Who knows, maybe it will happen someday, hopefully sooner than later. Whether or not the word of God is completely infallible, I don't know if I can ever believe that. Even if it was divinely inspired, it was still written and selected by men. You cannot hear God speak until you come into agreement with Him. Have you not heard? Am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted January 8, 2007 The people I see getting silenced in these debates have honest doubts that we could answer if we would just take the time. Odd. The ones I've seen deleted are from posters who have shown themselves to be anything but seeking. Exactly Nebula. Let's be open and honest here folks. When someone makes this sort of statement: There is a lot of purpose in persuading people. But let me give the one that mirrors your own: since I have become an atheist my life has become vibrantly more meaningful and rich. I want to save people from the dull lives they live in the pews. I want save them from a wasted life (which I believe is the only life they have). ...they aren't seeking but are here to undermine and destroy. This will NOT or NEVER will be tolerated, although I did allow that thread to continue for a few more days before closing and banning the person who made such a statement. May the Lord guide us in our thoughts, actions and words! Amen. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted January 8, 2007 You cannot hear God speak until you come into agreement with Him. Exactly Dave. Furthermore, Isaiah in chapter 59 wrote: 1 Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear. 2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear. 3 For your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt. Your lips have spoken lies, and your tongue mutters wicked things. 4 No one calls for justice; no one pleads his case with integrity. They rely on empty arguments and speak lies; they conceive trouble and give birth to evil. 9 So justice is far from us, and righteousness does not reach us. We look for light, but all is darkness; for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows. 10 Like the blind we grope along the wall, feeling our way like men without eyes. At midday we stumble as if it were twilight; among the strong, we are like the dead. BUT THERE IS HOPE... 20 "The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins," declares the LORD. Praise God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted January 8, 2007 If we say that we have to take things by faith, we then become "unlearned", "simple slaves", "idiotic", "Blind followers", "idiotic", "Kool-ade drinkers", "mindless", (yes, all of these labels have been attached to me right here on these very boards) and we then become something to be looked down upon, because we follow God's Word. Ya' know? The funny thing is that there are many learned and successful believers who frequent these boards. Without naming names, I have met medical doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, a financial consultant, business leaders, pastors, truck drivers, science teachers, professional athletes and so on. All of them are highly successful people in their respective fields. On the other hand, the typical profile of the visiting atheist with an agenda is a college student in their early 20's with little to no true life experience who thinks posting some dumb question will radically challenge our FAITH... you know those silly "paradox" questions..."if God could make a rock too heavy to lift"...and the likes. I, like C.S. Lewis, was amazed to discover that most Christians are not ignorant and blind but actually highly successful people. They seem to be happier and better able to handle the challenges of life that come their way. They aren't perfect by any means but they know the Source of true JOY. My Redeemer LIVES! Praise God! Just something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questioner Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 92 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2007 Grace to you, Questioner, You have left out of your equation, Jesus Christ. What are you going to do with Him? He doesn't fit neatly into the little construct of a box your mind has Created. He also smashes the Deists hopes to pieces. Peace, Dave I don't understand what you mean Are you arguing that Jesus makes God more likely then other gods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questioner Posted January 8, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 92 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2007 It's funny to me how atheists relegate belief in God to what can be reasoned. As if I have to rationalize God in order for Him to exist - or you have the power to rationalize Him away! To me, trying to rationalize the existence or non-existence of God is akin to trying to rationalize the existence or non-existence of the Sun. Nebula, I think you misunderstood what I did. If someone posts Pascal's Wager I feel a moral obligation to show where it fails, otherwise people could be misled by the lack of opposition into thinking it is a valid argument. I'm sure we both believe that deceit, intentional or not, is always wrong, even when it goes in favor of your religion or my lack of it. What I posted was not an argument against God; indeed if I were to try to disprove God I would use a completely different argument. What I posted shows, with help from Wikipedia, that Pascal's wager is not as compelling as Pascal said, that's all. There are much better reasons to believe in God, whether someone accepts them or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 9, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 9, 2007 There are much better reasons to believe in God, whether someone accepts them or not. Curious - What would you say those better reasons are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 9, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2007 Grace to you, I don't understand what you mean Are you arguing that Jesus makes God more likely then other gods? I'm saying that a full examination is in order in Light of what Jesus Christ claimed about Himself and what His followers Testified about Him doing. It does in fact make God, Jesus Christ, more likely than other gods. Jesus Christ just doesn't fit into a neat little box, unless you are prepared to call Him a lunatic and a liar. Do you believe He was a Good man who espoused Good Teachings? Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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