Is Jehovah Jesus, or God the Father?

[Rebmilc]

Interesting scripture choice with Luke 23:43. How would you explain this? If Jesus meant that very day he would be in paradise, what was Paul talking about in Acts 2:27 where he says of the Christ, "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell." Paradise and hell aren't the same. So, in all truthfulness, to say that Jesus was in paradise would be an over statement.

As for the Hypostatic Union, which is not ever mentioned in the Bible, much like the term 'trinity', Hebrews 1:3 seems to be a 'proof' scripture of that theory. The Council of Nicaea introduced this thought into Christianity, not the Apostles or first century Christians. One source says that this Hypostatic Union is held to defy finite human comprehension. John 4:24 says "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." The Bible makes the way for worshiping in truth because it holds all the answers, and these answers can be found. Man made these theories we can't understand, like evolution and the trinity, but God Yahweh is comprehendible. Deuteronomy 6:4 says one, not three seperate, not three together in a god-head.

Joh 20:17 - "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Jesus sits at the right hand of God, not on his throne.

I perceive that you are a Jehovah' Witness rekrul am I right unfortunately I have to go to work now but I will gladly return here and answer your post tomorrow. Your argument about the term "hypostatic union" and "Trinity" not being mentioned in the Bible is a totally weak one, just because a term is not mentioned in the bible doesn't mean that the truth behind that term is not taught. When you say the council of nicea introduced this thought into christianity do you mean the hypostatic union or the trinity? Let's deal with one issue at a time.

Untill tomorrow.

[Floatingaxe]

Interesting scripture choice with Luke 23:43. How would you explain this? If Jesus meant that very day he would be in paradise, what was Paul talking about in Acts 2:27 where he says of the Christ, "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell." Paradise and hell aren't the same. So, in all truthfulness, to say that Jesus was in paradise would be an over statement.

As for the Hypostatic Union, which is not ever mentioned in the Bible, much like the term 'trinity', Hebrews 1:3 seems to be a 'proof' scripture of that theory. The Council of Nicaea introduced this thought into Christianity, not the Apostles or first century Christians. One source says that this Hypostatic Union is held to defy finite human comprehension. John 4:24 says "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." The Bible makes the way for worshiping in truth because it holds all the answers, and these answers can be found. Man made these theories we can't understand, like evolution and the trinity, but God Yahweh is comprehendible. Deuteronomy 6:4 says one, not three seperate, not three together in a god-head.

Joh 20:17 - "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Jesus sits at the right hand of God, not on his throne.

Lurker: Jesus has His own throne as ruler, as King of all kings. What are you trying to say?

[Massorite]

If you have seen Me you have seen the Father. John 14:9 Jesus and God are all in one and one in all.

[Massorite]

An interesting topic. I would like to hear from you all.

What do YOU think? Is Christ the Eternal Jehovah, God of the Old Testament?

Isaiah 7:14 "Behold a virgin shall concieve and bear a son and shall call His name Immanuel'. The Hebrew meaning for the name Immanuel is "God with us" Jesus was God incarnete.

[Guest]

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

John 1:14

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

John 1:18

this one has always been a fave of mine.

1 Timothy 3:16

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

More! More!

Need More Bread Of Life!

You Go Bro!

Look - The LORD God - Our Savior - Our Brother Forever And Forever Amen!

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 10:17-18

He's Coming Back!

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:11-16

Didn't Know Jesus Is God

Shame On Those Teachers

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

James 3:1-2

Repent

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Glorify God

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Romans 1:20-22

The Godhead

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Colossians 2:8-10

See Jesus - Be Blessed

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Be Blessed Beloved Of The LORD

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Servus Christi]

What do you mean different religions? Only Christianity recognizes God and Jesus as Jehovah. Are you meaning other denominations? I wouldn't expect any other religion to know.

Sorry, I should have specified. Biblicist gave us definitions of denominations and religions. So I guess you could say they were different Christian denominations that were confused on the subject of Jesus being Jehovah.

Now, what I would like to know is who classified Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses as "non-Christian?" Anyone who makes that assumption is misinformed. But, as a Mormon, I enjoy being in my own "category."

I realize that Morman's do not believe in the Trinity and believe that Jehovah is Jesus. So with that in mind and knowing you believe that God is separate, my simple question is "Where is God in the Hebrew Scriptures?"

I am not trying to be smart, but no one has ever answered that question for me.

Your question is strange to me. The God in the Hebrew Scriptures is right there, smack dab in the middle of it all! the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit are right there on every page.

i'm surprised no one pointed this out. Jehovah is a linguistic mistake. Jehovah did not appear until 1530 first off. The written Hebrew did not use vowels until a bit later, the originals read YHWH, that's the expression in English for God. The name of God, "YHWH" became too sacred to pronounce among many Hebrew's, so where ever YHWH appeared, the scribes added vowel marks signaling the reader to say, "Adonai", ( Greek= Kyrios, Latin Dominus, English Lord) which was substituted for the unspeakable YHWH, instead of yaweh. The result of this, is if your not aware that your supposed to read "Adonai" it sounds like "Yahowah", or Jehovah. Jehovah is not the name of God, it's a mix of yaweh, and Adonnai.

As for Christ being like yaweh, I believe so. They are of the 'same substance', one nature three persons, which I believe was adressed earlier. I can't emphasize enough though that, "Jehovah" is a linguistic mistake lol.

God bless all, Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

[Vickilynn]

i'm surprised no one pointed this out. Jehovah is a linguistic mistake. Jehovah did not appear until 1530 first off. The written Hebrew did not use vowels until a bit later, the originals read YHWH, that's the expression in English for God. The name of God, "YHWH" became too sacred to pronounce among many Hebrew's, so where ever YHWH appeared, the scribes added vowel marks signaling the reader to say, "Adonai", ( Greek= Kyrios, Latin Dominus, English Lord) which was substituted for the unspeakable YHWH, instead of yaweh. The result of this, is if your not aware that your supposed to read "Adonai" it sounds like "Yahowah", or Jehovah. Jehovah is not the name of God, it's a mix of yaweh, and Adonnai.

As for Christ being like yaweh, I believe so. They are of the 'same substance', one nature three persons, which I believe was adressed earlier. I can't emphasize enough though that, "Jehovah" is a linguistic mistake lol.

God bless all, Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

Shalom,

Amen!!! I get tickled when people use "Jehovah" when in fact, that is a man-made name and as was said, a linguistic MISTAKE!

[MrLuke]

Are there any sources yuo can cite for this Jehovah name thing? I've heard it said before about it being a mistake, but I've never seen or read anything on it properly.

[Servus Christi]

i'm surprised no one pointed this out. Jehovah is a linguistic mistake. Jehovah did not appear until 1530 first off. The written Hebrew did not use vowels until a bit later, the originals read YHWH, that's the expression in English for God. The name of God, "YHWH" became too sacred to pronounce among many Hebrew's, so where ever YHWH appeared, the scribes added vowel marks signaling the reader to say, "Adonai", ( Greek= Kyrios, Latin Dominus, English Lord) which was substituted for the unspeakable YHWH, instead of yaweh. The result of this, is if your not aware that your supposed to read "Adonai" it sounds like "Yahowah", or Jehovah. Jehovah is not the name of God, it's a mix of yaweh, and Adonnai.

As for Christ being like yaweh, I believe so. They are of the 'same substance', one nature three persons, which I believe was adressed earlier. I can't emphasize enough though that, "Jehovah" is a linguistic mistake lol.

God bless all, Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

Shalom,

Amen!!! I get tickled when people use "Jehovah" when in fact, that is a man-made name and as was said, a linguistic MISTAKE!

The word Jehovah, yaweh with Adonai occurs more often than any other divine name. The conc. of Furst "Vet. Test. Concordantiae" Leipzieg 1840, and mandelkern "Vet. Concordantiae" Lepzieg 1896, don't agree on how often Jehovah is used, however it is roughly about 6,000 times in the OT. The Septuagint the oldest translation of the OT, used Kyiros, and the Vulgate the first translation of the entire Bible, uses Dominus. Remember that though 'Jehovah' is used 6,000 times in the OT, it's not a proper name, it's YHWH, with Adonnai supposed to be read.

-Berachoth 9:5, uses YHWH in the form of salutation.

-In Sanhedrin 10:1, Abba shaul, refuses any in the 'future world' to those who pronounce YWHW, as it is written, with Adonai.

-Thamid, 7:2 the Priests in the temple were aloud to say YHWH, however those outside of Jerusalem had to say Adonai.

-according to Maimonides "More neb. i, 61 and Yad Chasaka 14:10, the true name of God was only used by the priests in the sanctuary who imparted the blessings and by the high priest on the day of atonement.

-Phil. De mut. nom., n. 2 (ed. marg., i, 580) Vita Mos 3,25 (2,166) supports the Priests saying the true name of God, but..only in a low voice.

-Josephus antiq. 2,12,4 say's that he is not 'allowed' to treat the divine name. He also say's that a monument was built for the great name of God.

This reverance for the name YHWH is hard to date. In the Septuagint every where Jehovah is found in the Hebrew versions, Kyrios is found.

Lev. 24:16 "and he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord dying let him die." the Hebrew noqedh is rendered 'blasphemeth', and is translated as Honomazon in the Septuagint, which means to 'denote' or to 'determine' by means of it's proper vowels.

-the consonants of Jehovah are 'alway's accompanied in the Hebrew texts by the vowels of Adonai, unless adonai stands in direct opposition to Jehovah, then the vowels of Elohim are submitted. The use of a simple shewa in the first syllable of Jehovah, instead of the compound shewa in the corresponding syllable of Adonai and Elohim, is 'required' by the laws of hebrew grammar governing the use of 'shewa'.

-Jehovah is composed of the abbreviated forms of the imperfect, the participle, and the perfect of the Hebrew Verb to be. ye=yehi; ho=howeh; wah=hawah, this means, 'he who will be, is and who has been' there has not been an analogy of the word formation in the Hebrew Langauge.

The name of Yaweh was too sacred to pronounce so they substituted the vowels of Adonai, when you read it with out the knowlege that your supposed to read Adonai and not the two combined it comes as Jehovah. This argument goes deep, many take it to the next level, of 'Javeh', or 'Yaveh'. However i'm sure on any level of argument, the essential point that Jehovah is a lingustic mistake, is universally understood, by many scholars. Hope that kind of clarifies a bit.

Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

[Rebmilc]

Interesting scripture choice with Luke 23:43. How would you explain this? If Jesus meant that very day he would be in paradise, what was Paul talking about in Acts 2:27 where he says of the Christ, "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell." Paradise and hell aren't the same. So, in all truthfulness, to say that Jesus was in paradise would be an over statement.

As for the Hypostatic Union, which is not ever mentioned in the Bible, much like the term 'trinity', Hebrews 1:3 seems to be a 'proof' scripture of that theory. The Council of Nicaea introduced this thought into Christianity, not the Apostles or first century Christians. One source says that this Hypostatic Union is held to defy finite human comprehension. John 4:24 says "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." The Bible makes the way for worshiping in truth because it holds all the answers, and these answers can be found. Man made these theories we can't understand, like evolution and the trinity, but God Yahweh is comprehendible. Deuteronomy 6:4 says one, not three seperate, not three together in a god-head.

Joh 20:17 - "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Jesus sits at the right hand of God, not on his throne.

Hi there Rekrul.

I apologize for not getting back to you sooner as promised but unfortunately a emergency cropped up at work and consequently I have been very busy. However better late than never.

I closed my last thread by saying that I believed that you were a Jehovah