ELECTION or FREE WILL

[larryt]

You forgot one, all of the above. . .

I did not forget!

LT

[Floatingaxe]

As I stated in my OP I have been studying this topic quite extensively for the past several months. In Eph. 1:3-5 Paul tells us that we are blessed with ALL/EVERYTHING the spiritual blessings in Christ. That we WERE chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. And that we WERE predestinated us UNTO the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself.

Eph 1:3

[larryt]

Hi there Truster. I have copied and pasted a commentry that I found in crosswalk that referring to the chapter of Ephesians, you mentioned in one of your posts. It's worth considering it contains the clause* from the foundations of the earth*

I would like to know your opinion on it.

3-6. Blessed be the God. The word rendered "blessed" is one from which our word eulogize is derived. It means, therefore, primarily, to praise. "Praised be the God," etc., gives the idea. Who hath blessed us. The blessed is here from the same root. The word means, as above, "to praise," or to "speak" good things of one; then to "speak" good things to, or bestow blessings, as a secondary meaning. This is the meaning here. With all spiritual blessings. All came from God, and he has withheld none from those in Christ. In the heavenly. In the kingdom of heaven. 4. According as. "Even as," in Revision. Chosen us in him before the foundation of the world. This does not affirm that God chose some individuals and rejected others, but that before the world was, before there was Jew or Gentile, God chose to have a people for himself, the whole church of Christ, a covenant people confined to no one earthly race. Holy and without blame. God chose them that they might be holy. Holiness is the proof that a church is a chosen church. 5. Having predestinated us. Foreordained that we, the church of Jesus Christ, should be adopted as his children. The whole line of argument is general instead of particular. God foreordained a church which should be composed of those adopted as his children. According to the pleasure of his will. The act of predestination was due simply to God's sovereign will. His will was the cause. 6. To the praise of the glory of his grace. To the end that his grace in adopting us as children may redound to his praise and glory. In the beloved. In Christ. See Matt.

I can give you the url if you wish, but I will have to go back and find it again.

cheers.

Hi eric,

The emphasis in verse 4 is not on "before the foundation of the world" but on the phrase

"According as He hath chose us in Him" The statement is that God chose us. "Before the foundation of the world" tells us when.

LT

[larryt]

As I stated in my OP I have been studying this topic quite extensively for the past several months. In Eph. 1:3-5 Paul tells us that we are blessed with ALL/EVERYTHING the spiritual blessings in Christ. That we WERE chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. And that we WERE predestinated us UNTO the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself.

Eph 1:3

[eric]

Thanks Larry,but according to some dyed-in- the-wool, calvanists, some claim thay we are chosen individually to be saved or perish and that we have no choice in our salvation or damnation, which I do not buy into.

e

[Floatingaxe]

As I stated in my OP I have been studying this topic quite extensively for the past several months. In Eph. 1:3-5 Paul tells us that we are blessed with ALL/EVERYTHING the spiritual blessings in Christ. That we WERE chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. And that we WERE predestinated us UNTO the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself.

Eph 1:3

[eric]

From FA,

Sounds to me like the act of free will gets one eternal life.

--------------------

Sounnds to me like the act of free will can likewise get one eternal damnation as well........don'tcha reckon.?

[larryt]

As I stated in my OP I have been studying this topic quite extensively for the past several months. In Eph. 1:3-5 Paul tells us that we are blessed with ALL/EVERYTHING the spiritual blessings in Christ. That we WERE chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. And that we WERE predestinated us UNTO the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself.

Eph 1:3

[larryt]

Thanks Larry,but according to some dyed-in- the-wool, calvanists, some claim thay we are chosen individually to be saved or perish and that we have no choice in our salvation or damnation, which I do not buy into.

e

Hi eric,

Almost right. We are ALL ALREADY damned to eternal fire. If God chooses to save some of us, is He unjust. Like the Governor of a State pardoning a lifer in prison. Is he unjust to the other prisoners to choose just two prisoners.

The natural man has no choice to not sin. He cannot but help to sin.

We are chosen to salvation. Even faith is a gift from God. It is all Jesus Christ.

LT

[eric]

Thanks Larry,but according to some dyed-in- the-wool, calvanists, some claim thay we are chosen individually to be saved or perish and that we have no choice in our salvation or damnation, which I do not buy into.

e

Hi eric,

Almost right. We are ALL ALREADY damned to eternal fire. If God chooses to save some of us, is He unjust. Like the Governor of a State pardoning a lifer in prison. Is he unjust to the other prisoners to choose just two prisoners.

The natural man has no choice to not sin. He cannot but help to sin.

We are chosen to salvation. Even faith is a gift from God. It is all Jesus Christ.

LT

Hi again Larry, I have to agree with your last two statemenrs here, and the only reason we are born in sin is because of the fall of the first man, adam........ so we have to ask ourselves....Did God definitely know that adam would fall?.... I for one don't think he did know. Some say He did know, because of His omniscience, which freely defined, means *all knowing*, but not necessarily *in advance*. tho I don't doubt His ability to be able to.

I have no doubt, somehow, that it was after the fall, that God put His contingency plan into action, by sending His Son to lead us back into relationship and reconciliation with Him. You see, to me at anyrate, if God had created adam with a free will, it wouldn't have bothered God which tree adam ate from. However it must have mattered, because God warned adam and told him he was to do HIS will and leave the tree alone. He didn't give adam a free rein, but He did give adam a brain so that he was able to make the right choice, the same as we have today.

A bit raggle taggle, Larry, bro, but I hope you see where I'm coming from.