hupo Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted March 24, 2007 How do we know that the Trinity exists, if the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible? The word "Bible" doesn't appear in the Bible either. I have trouble accepting the absence of something as proof that it doesn't exist. As for the concept of the Trinity. I too would like to know how we can tell if the Trinity actually exists. Is it for real or was it just forced by Constantine? A contradiction concerning the topic, that I "googled up": Luk 1:35 And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy--the Son of God. The child born was the son of God and was begotten by the holy spirit. This brings to mind that the Holy Spirit and God are one and the same Act 5:32 And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him." Here the Holy Spirit is given by God and they seem to be two diferent enteties The Holy Spirit is God the father of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is God who is in all and through all. Can't have two spiritual entities in all and through all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted March 24, 2007 How do we know that the Trinity exists, if the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible? The word "grandfather" is not in the Bible either. Yet we know that Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob. Jesse was the grandfather of Solomon, etc. There are grandfathers in the Bible, even if the word itself does not appear. Trinity is not a Hebrew or Greek word. It is a purely English word. That does not mean that the Bible does not teach that The Father Son and Holy Spirit are God. It may not use the word, but the concept is there. Very true What I need is scripture for describing the concept of the Trinity Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2007 How do we know that the Trinity exists, if the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible? The word "grandfather" is not in the Bible either. Yet we know that Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob. Jesse was the grandfather of Solomon, etc. There are grandfathers in the Bible, even if the word itself does not appear. Trinity is not a Hebrew or Greek word. It is a purely English word. That does not mean that the Bible does not teach that The Father Son and Holy Spirit are God. It may not use the word, but the concept is there. Very true What I need is scripture for describing the concept of the Trinity Blessings Here's a short list of Scriptures that affirm the concept of the Trinity: Matthew 28:19 John 5:19-20 1 Cor. 8:6 1 Cor. 11:3 2 Cor. 13:14 1 Peter 1:2 Along with the others I mentioned above. Also, Jesus allowed Himself to be worshipped (which is evidence that He is God). The Trinity is a difficult concept for our finite minds to grasp, the idea that these are three distinct persons and yet One. But there is a distinct ontological difference between God and creation (everything else). Which basically means He is infinite, transcendant, and dwells on an entirely different plane of reality. While we can understand certain things about God, and He communicates truth to us through His Word, the person of Christ and the Holy Spirit...this does not mean we can know him comprehensively or understand ALL there is about Him. Hope that helps.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2007 Matt 3: 16-17 After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him. And a voice came from the heavens, saying, "This is my beloved Son, 13 with whom I am well pleased." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2007 Matt 3: 16-17 After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him. And a voice came from the heavens, saying, "This is my beloved Son, 13 with whom I am well pleased." Is this supposed to depict a triune god? Which one is the God and father of all, in all and through all? Each Person of the Trinity is fully God. They are One. What do you believe, Quick? Is Jesus God? Is the Holy Spirit God? Peace, Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Here's a short list of Scriptures that affirm the concept of the Trinity: Matthew 28:19 John 5:19-20 1 Cor. 8:6 1 Cor. 11:3 2 Cor. 13:14 1 Peter 1:2 Along with the others I mentioned above. Also, Jesus allowed Himself to be worshipped (which is evidence that He is God). The Trinity is a difficult concept for our finite minds to grasp, the idea that these are three distinct persons and yet One. But there is a distinct ontological difference between God and creation (everything else). Which basically means He is infinite, transcendant, and dwells on an entirely different plane of reality. While we can understand certain things about God, and He communicates truth to us through His Word, the person of Christ and the Holy Spirit...this does not mean we can know him comprehensively or understand ALL there is about Him. Hope that helps.. Yes I'm sure it will help. THanks. I really need to see all sides and scripture is seeing the truth and not some gossip or hearsay Thanks Kabowd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted March 24, 2007 The Holy Spirit is God the father of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is God who is in all and through all. Can't have two spiritual entities in all and through all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I think the most solid answer to this question is in understanding the revelations of God. First and foremost God reveals Himself to all mankind through nature but we learn nothing of the Trinity or Christ from nature nor from the human mind, in fact, it is Christ who reveals the Trinity. It's not that the Trinity is not revealed in the Old Testament but it was the authority of the New Testament, the Testament of Christ by which we can define the Trinity in the Old Testament. (I gotta run, guests have arrived) I'll leave you with this passage to contemplate. Isaiah 48:12-16 12Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. 13Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. 14All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. 15I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Peace CJ Thanks Looks like I'm going to have my hands full You guys are being real helpfull and I thank you for it Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Matt 3: 16-17 After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him. And a voice came from the heavens, saying, "This is my beloved Son, 13 with whom I am well pleased." THanks for your response I have no doubt Yeshua is the son of God. I just don't see this as an indication of the Trinity. John 1:1-2 for instance has quite a solid verification of the ..... well not the Trinity, but a solid verification of Yeshua being one with God. 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2: He was in the beginning with God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted March 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I have been discussing this with those who deny the Trinity too. My question was then. If the Trinity doesn't exist.... Who is God? Who is Yeshua? Who is the Holy spirit? After all, they are all mentioned in scripture. I must admit, this topic is getting more interesting by the minute Mind boggling in fact By the way, as of yet, I do not have a solid view on the Triity. I'm trying to put the puzzle together Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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