Oh Hamburgers! Posted February 7, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted February 7, 2007 could you please answer the question " Which comes first commandments from God or "human rights" ?" I would like to hear what you think That has nothing to do with the current topic at hand, we aren't talking about about my personal beliefs, we are talking about the Washington Initiative. My position is any government without God in it WILL be corrupt Well, then I have some bad news for you... the US government, and almost every other modern government in the world is corrupt according to your position. In fact, historically governments have been even MORE corrupt when they combine church and state... crusades anyone? Feudal Europe? But that isn't really the issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zceiv Posted February 7, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 482 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1991 Share Posted February 7, 2007 could you please answer the question " Which comes first commandments from God or "human rights" ?" I would like to hear what you think That has nothing to do with the current topic at hand, we aren't talking about about my personal beliefs, we are talking about the Washington Initiative. My position is any government without God in it WILL be corrupt Well, then I have some bad news for you... the US government, and almost every other modern government in the world is corrupt according to your position. In fact, historically governments have been even MORE corrupt when they combine church and state... crusades anyone? Feudal Europe? But that isn't really the issue here. Hmm so you think If God is in the government it is corrupt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted February 7, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted February 7, 2007 could you please answer the question " Which comes first commandments from God or "human rights" ?" I would like to hear what you think That has nothing to do with the current topic at hand, we aren't talking about about my personal beliefs, we are talking about the Washington Initiative. My position is any government without God in it WILL be corrupt Well, then I have some bad news for you... the US government, and almost every other modern government in the world is corrupt according to your position. In fact, historically governments have been even MORE corrupt when they combine church and state... crusades anyone? Feudal Europe? But that isn't really the issue here. Hmm so you think If God is in the government it is corrupt? Governments are manmade things. Men sin. Men are selfish. The Institution of the Christian church is manmade, even if it is based around God, who isn't man. Therefore, the Institution of the Church in the feudal ages, and even today, is prone to corruption just like any other manmade thing. But in America, if "God" was in the government, as in if the practices of the Christian faith were directly woven into the secular government of the US, then yes, I do think it would be corrupt, because men would use their selfish agendas to get what they want at the expense of others. Once men in power use religion as their sole reason for implementing things, they have almost always abused it in history. I am chosing my words carefully, I hope it comes out the way I intend it to. Again, we are going off topic; let's stick with what is on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted February 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.43 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted February 7, 2007 ...God, who isn't man. God is a man. His name is Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted February 7, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted February 7, 2007 ...God, who isn't man. God is a man. His name is Jesus. You know what I mean, Jesus isn't physically part of today's church, only spiritually. I am talking about the manmade institution of the christian church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zceiv Posted February 7, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 482 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1991 Share Posted February 7, 2007 For the government, homosexuality is a lifestyle, and NOT a sin. and thats the problem Is it your position that the United States should be a Christian Theocracy? Yes. As a citizen of the United States, a person can support any position they want for any reason. I don't have to simply accept the idea that the government is secular. I can vote for candidates that support imposing Christian values on the entire nation. Those candidates may or may not win, but that doesn't change the fact that I have my vote. To me, my first loyalty is to God, not country. As such, I am going to do what I can to influence the nation towards a Biblical viewpoint. amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted February 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Grace to you, When you think about it, it is absurd to think that allowing Civil Unions or even Gay Marriage would be a threat to marriage in general. Marriage is a personal institution between you and your wife. If you base your marriage on how society in general treats it, you are destined to fail. If a lesbian couple down the street were granted a Civil Union then it would have no more affect on the marriage my wife and I have than some guy on his 5th marriage two blocks away would. Forrest, Way back when I was a Catholic I remember one pertinent thing about my Marriage as the Priest spoke to my wife and I about our vows and what we were committing to. He said, "I want you to understand something here, God takes this seriously, He instituted this Covenant. He also is having you state your vows not only to each other but in front of Him and this Christian community as a Witness. Even more so He has involved this community because your Marriage will impact it and this society forever". Now I have parpahrased the Priest but taken it in the context of what he meant and was trying to convey. My Marriage has Eternal Echoes. It is not just between myself and my wife. It is and was instituted by God and Sanctioned as Holy. It is also sanctioned for the Creation of Progeny in a Godly fashion and for those Progenys Highest Good. I take it from your posting here that you don't particularly think that God Judges blatant sin and that He has no regard for how a Nation conducts it's affairs. I also take it from your posting that you do indeed endorse Homosexual Marriage as a Civil Union but not as a Covenant. However God ordained Marriage as a Covenant from the beginning. It is His to endorse, it is also His to Bless in whatever manner He see's fit for the common Good of mankind. It is the Fruit of His Spirit that gives us Good things. One of them is the Covenant of Marriage. That is why we humans should not deem it neccesary to defile it with our idea of what we find acceptable. We are wrong and God is Right. It's that simple. If we long to enjoy the Blessings and the favor of the Lord as a Nation. We best see fit to live the way that God endorses and not at the whim and mercy of what we see as Good or deem as such. Outside of the Word of God, we are not capable of deeming what is Good. Outside of the Word of God, You and I are outside of our minds. The study of the Swedes is not arbitrary and garbage but long held as a proof of what happens to a Society when it tends to the desire of its propagated sin. We Christians need to adhere to the Word of God, by it we live and die and have our movement and meaning. Because it offends our human sensibilities does not mean that it is not to be adhered to. Quite the contrary, when we find it offending our sensibilities. We ought to quickly find our knee's and ask the Holy Spirit to correct our hearts. Last point, I find it simply amazing that every proof you find opposed to your viewpoint is quickly castigated as garbage and is to be done away with. Slate is probably one of the most biased sites I have ever seen. It is heavily influenced by the Left and is heavily anti-Christian in it's content and bias. Of course they would carry water for the Homosexual Lobby. I stand by my earlier assertion. "Naw, There's no culture War going on". If it were not so insidiously aimed at my children, I would not be so averse to its adherents. It is opposed to everything my Savior died for. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted February 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.06 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'm so tired of having the 'gay agenda' shoved in my face everywhere I look. If they want to pretend to get married, let them. It means nothing. I would never hate gays for their lifestyle but I will insist that homosexuality is a sin. They don't need my understanding, however; they need God's forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted February 7, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'm so tired of having the 'gay agenda' shoved in my face everywhere I look. If they want to pretend to get married, let them. It means nothing. I would never hate gays for their lifestyle but I will insist that homosexuality is a sin. They don't need my understanding, however; they need God's forgiveness. I really think that's all they want... a civil union of some sort that gives them the same LEGAL system as marriage, but without the blessing of religion. I say why not let them? I firmly believe that if they are allowed this right in the eyes of the state, they will be content. Christians can still believe they are living in sin, they can get the right to hold onto property if their partner passes away, and everyone is happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted February 7, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Yes. I hate it when evil people attempt to harm good people. Do you have a problem with that? If so, you are morally confused. Do you have a problem with God making His judgment plain? I should think all who care a whit about the Lord would think that would be quite a good thing. May the Lord make His judgment plain. I have a problem with associating people with their sins. You are calling them evil people for commiting an evil act in the eyes of God, but we are taught not to do this. We are to love people, and rebuke the sins they commit. As soon as you bundle someone up with the evil they commit, and associate them to be evil people, you make it much easier to hate, and justify terrible things to be done against them in the name of God. That is what I have a problem with, it leads to much worse things. So Jesus was just acting unloving toward the Pharisees in Matthew 23? I guess Jesus just had an 'attitude problem;' associating those people with their sins like that!!! Brother, people are known BY THEIR ACTIONS. God will 'judge every man, according to the deeds done in the flesh.....' To separate persons from their actions is to engage in the old Gnostic heresy. What we do, matters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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