ParanoidAndroid Posted April 1, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 591 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/27/1979 Share Posted April 1, 2007 The Rapture is one of the most debated end-times concepts out there. There are different views about when it will happen, as well as differeing views on whether or not it will happen at all. My position is this: be ready for it. If you're ready, then it doesn't matter whether you're wrong or right about it in the end. I know I'm a little late (can't blame a guy for not being here in February, lol) but well said I personally don't believe the Rapture is a biblically supportable concept. I think it takes quite some squirming and bending of Revelation and 1 Thessalonians in order to come to this belief. The rapture was not even considered until the 1800's. However, on the off-chance that i am wrong, your statement is absolutely perfect. Be prepared. Live your lives worthy of Christ Jesus, so that no fault can be found within us (there will always be faults, but you know what I mean). If the Rapture turns out to be true, and somehow I'm not amongst them raptured up, i would really have to take a look at my life again and assess whether I am really living a godly life. Regards, PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2007 There are a lot of christians who belive that the restrainer spoken of in 2Thes.2:7 is the Holy Spirit, but you are right tmrfiles, if the Holy Spirit is taken, who is the only one who has the power to convict, who is going to convict the lost during the tribulation. 2 Thess. 2:7 ...only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. That verse doesn't say He's taken away....it says He's taken out of the way. Theres a difference between the 2. Taken away means removed. Taken out of the way means He is moved aside. Its like curtains on a window. If they're closed you can't see beyond them. But if you open them, move them to the side, you are clear to see what is on the other side. You don't need to remove them to see whats on the other side of the window. He is moved aside so that the lawless one can be revealed. That's a stretch. The Church also will be taken out of the way--removed--so that the lawless one can do his thing. There is not too much difference between the two wordings you have provided. Either way, the Holy Spirit is not active, because He, too, I believe is going to be at the wedding. Regarding conviction: Before the Holy Spirit came, it ws the Law that convicted of sin. Before that, it was conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2007 The Spirit of God came upon whomever He wilt...it wasn't as it is in this age. The Spirit of the Lord "came uopn..." is read in so many places. He came upon many men, priests, elders, prophets, judges and kings...leaders. Not the people in general..He wasn't the indwelt Saviour as Jesus is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace1479 Posted April 1, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/09/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/20/1968 Share Posted April 1, 2007 So when did the Holy Ghost first appear, FA and when did the law first appear FA?? Scripture please??? And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. {2} And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. {3} Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words. Deut 33:1-3 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Hebrews 9:8 The Holy Ghost has always been here since OT time, He just had not yet been made manifest yet until the coming of Jesus Christ. Grace was still fully operational in the Old Testament and the method of salvation was no different for them as it is for us today. This means those who were saved before the cross were indwelled with the Holy Spirit as we are or else they were not saved. There are multitudes of OT saints who were given the Holy Spirit, and walked by faith in God, beginning in Genesis. This is the problem when people do not read and study the OT, which is very relevant today. A couple of examples here: In speaking of Joseph, it is written "And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?" Genesis 41:38 But the spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abiezer was gathered after him. Judges 6:34 A study of Hebrews Chapter 11 would be helpful to you, as well as reading the OT. I agree. Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Genesis 41:38 So Pharaoh asked them, "Can we find anyone like this man, one in whom is the spirit of God ?" Exodus 31:3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts- Exodus 35:31 and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts- Numbers 24:2 When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came upon him 1 Samuel 10:10 When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying Rapture: Matthew 24:40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 There are a lot of christians who belive that the restrainer spoken of in 2Thes.2:7 is the Holy Spirit, but you are right tmrfiles, if the Holy Spirit is taken, who is the only one who has the power to convict, who is going to convict the lost during the tribulation. 2 Thess. 2:7 ...only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. That verse doesn't say He's taken away....it says He's taken out of the way. Theres a difference between the 2. Taken away means removed. Taken out of the way means He is moved aside. Its like curtains on a window. If they're closed you can't see beyond them. But if you open them, move them to the side, you are clear to see what is on the other side. You don't need to remove them to see whats on the other side of the window. He is moved aside so that the lawless one can be revealed. That's a stretch. The Church also will be taken out of the way--removed--so that the lawless one can do his thing. There is not too much difference between the two wordings you have provided. Either way, the Holy Spirit is not active, because He, too, I believe is going to be at the wedding. Regarding conviction: Before the Holy Spirit came, it ws the Law that convicted of sin. Before that, it was conscience. So are you saying there was no Holy Spirit until after the death of Christ? A simple yes or no will do. This question is for FA and no one else. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2007 The Spirit of God came upon whomever He wilt...it wasn't as it is in this age. The Spirit of the Lord "came uopn..." is read in so many places. He came upon many men, priests, elders, prophets, judges and kings...leaders. Not the people in general..He wasn't the indwelt Saviour as Jesus is today. The Spirit of the Lord operates today as it did in OT times. He has always been here. You are making broad base comments that simply are not scriptural, and you have no scripture to back up your comments. John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of the Spirit Since Jesus is God in the OT, I think He would know what He is talking about, as the OT shows, which you choose to ignore. There is only one Holy Spirit and He is the same in the OT as the NT. He simply had not come to full manifestation until Jesus came, as I have shown you in Hebrews 9:8. That's right. He had not come to His full manifestation which was planned for a later time, at Pentecost and ever after, in the hearts of all men who receive the Messiah. It's a dispensational thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2007 The Spirit of God came upon whomever He wilt...it wasn't as it is in this age. The Spirit of the Lord "came uopn..." is read in so many places. He came upon many men, priests, elders, prophets, judges and kings...leaders. Not the people in general..He wasn't the indwelt Saviour as Jesus is today. The Spirit of the Lord operates today as it did in OT times. He has always been here. You are making broad base comments that simply are not scriptural, and you have no scripture to back up your comments. John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of the Spirit Since Jesus is God in the OT, I think He would know what He is talking about, as the OT shows, which you choose to ignore. There is only one Holy Spirit and He is the same in the OT as the NT. He simply had not come to full manifestation until Jesus came, as I have shown you in Hebrews 9:8. That's right. He had not come to His full manifestation which was planned for a later time, at Pentecost and ever after, in the hearts of all men who receive the Messiah. It's a dispensational thing. So are you saying that the Holy Spirit was not here before Jesus came, FA?? No. He was always with God but was not manifested as He is since Pentecost in every believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 The Spirit of God came upon whomever He wilt...it wasn't as it is in this age. The Spirit of the Lord "came uopn..." is read in so many places. He came upon many men, priests, elders, prophets, judges and kings...leaders. Not the people in general..He wasn't the indwelt Saviour as Jesus is today. The Spirit of the Lord operates today as it did in OT times. He has always been here. You are making broad base comments that simply are not scriptural, and you have no scripture to back up your comments. John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of the Spirit Since Jesus is God in the OT, I think He would know what He is talking about, as the OT shows, which you choose to ignore. There is only one Holy Spirit and He is the same in the OT as the NT. He simply had not come to full manifestation until Jesus came, as I have shown you in Hebrews 9:8. That's right. He had not come to His full manifestation which was planned for a later time, at Pentecost and ever after, in the hearts of all men who receive the Messiah. It's a dispensational thing. So are you saying that the Holy Spirit was not here before Jesus came, FA?? No. He was always with God but was not manifested as He is since Pentecost in every believer. Whats the difference between the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace1479 Posted April 1, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/09/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/20/1968 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Whats the difference between the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit? No difference. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. He was always there from the beginning. I think The baptizing of the Holy Spirit only came after Jesus, but the working of the Holy Spirit was there from the beginning, for God was there from the beginning and They are one. My opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Whats the difference between the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit? No difference. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. He was always there from the beginning. I think The baptizing of the Holy Spirit only came after Jesus, but the working of the Holy Spirit was there from the beginning, for God was there from the beginning and They are one. My opinion So before the death of Christ, were there people who were filled with the Holy Spirit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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