Burning_Ember Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2007 This should be interesting. Yes America was founded on christianity. Samual Adams wrote extensively on it in his journals as well as other founders. Many of the founders and early presidents weren't Christian. Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, to name a couple. THe first constitutional covenant was the following Thus, from their earliest beginnings, the people and polities comprising the United States have bound themselves together through covenants to erect their New World order, deliberately following biblical precedents. The covenant concluded on the Mayflower on November 11, 1620, remains the first hallowed document of the American constitutional tradition: <snip>a voyage to plant the first colonie in the Northerne parts of Virginia, doe by these presents solemnly and mutualy in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves togeather into a civill body politick, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by vertue hearof to enacte, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meete and convenient for the generall good of the colonie, unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witnes wherof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cap Codd the 11. of November, in the year of the raigne of our soveraigne lord, King James, of England, France, and Ireland the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fiftie fourth. Ano: Dom. 1620. America as a nation was not founded until 1776. You are off by about a century and a half. At that point, Canada and America didn't exist, and it was just Britain and its colonies. Like you say in the next post in the thread, "show me in the consitution" or in this case, some legal document that has actual significance. If the only document that you can cite is from a century and a half before America was founded, well, I just hope thats not your whole argument. <snip>The Constitution was written based on the 1630's constitutional covenant made between the settlers and God. It also incorporated other Constitutional covenants of other colonies and is also one of only two Constitutional Covenants with God that exist in the world today. Israel being the other one.I'm talking America itself. Post declaration of independence. America is certainly nothing like Isreal in that regard. Christianity founded this nation, and it still is strong today as long as Christians fight to keep it strong. Show me, when America as a nation actually existed, in the consitution or in some federal document stating that Christianity founded the nation. Or even better, show me where a law says what the national religion is. (There is none.) Next post! Separation of Chuch and state does not exist. Show me in the constitution where it says that. Religion is practiced by state all the time, but state is not practiced in religion as it should be. In other words, you can't take God out of the Government. Its not Constitutional to do so. Did you check Amendment number one? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. So basically, the government cannot favour any religion (or promote Atheism, for that matter) or restrict any religion. The phrase separation of church and state however, was from Thomas Jefferson, in a letter explaining what it meant. Look at this case for example, to see one of many rulings that the supreme court made. In any case, it says in the consitution that there is to be no preference, Thomas Jefferson, one of the founders, explained what it meant, and there is Supreme court precedent on this subject. Your opinion is not of higher authourity than any of those examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted March 20, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Many of the founders and early presidents weren't Christian. Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, to name a couple. George washington, Samuel Adams, were very much christians! you need to do some reading on George Washington. He was a private man but he was a devout christian. America as a nation was not founded until 1776. You are off by about a century and a half. At that point, Canada and America didn't exist, and it was just Britain and its colonies. Like you say in the next post in the thread, "show me in the consitution" or in this case, some legal document that has actual significance. If the only document that you can cite is from a century and a half before America was founded, well, I just hope thats not your whole argument. Again your ignoring the fact that the constitution, and declaration of independence was written and patterned after the constitutional covenants i listed. The governments were still in operation and still continued as a God based government even after the constitution was ratified. I'm talking America itself. Post declaration of independence. America is certainly nothing like Isreal in that regard. Post declaration it was still run as a God based Governement. MOST of the states constitutions give glory to God. Even our money gives Glory to God as well as most of our Government buildings, halls of justice and momunents. Show me, when America as a nation actually existed, in the consitution or in some federal document stating that Christianity founded the nation. Or even better, show me where a law says what the national religion is. (There is none.) Theres no national religion. but that doesn't negate the fact that chritians founded this country. I can guarantee you it wasn't islam! It wasn't athiests, or buddists. Separation of Chuch and state does not exist. Show me in the constitution where it says that. Religion is practiced by state all the time, but state is not practiced in religion as it should be. In other words, you can't take God out of the Government. Its not Constitutional to do so. Did you check Amendment number one? Sure did, It doesn't exist! Would you like to point out the words separation of church and state? Now there is a restriction on GOVERNMENT and Government ONLY. It doesn't restrict in anyway religion whatsoever! So basically, the government cannot favour any religion (or promote Atheism, for that matter) or restrict any religion. Yes and your point is??? The phrase separation of church and state however, was from Thomas Jefferson, in a letter explaining what it meant. Look at this case for example, to see one of many rulings that the supreme court made. Still isn't in the constitution. It still doesn't restrict religion whatsoever. It does however shackle the Government as it should! In any case, it says in the consitution that there is to be no preference, Thomas Jefferson, one of the founders, explained what it meant, and there is Supreme court precedent on this subject. Your opinion is not of higher authourity than any of those examples. thats funny, supreme court says nothing about restricting religion. we still pray in congress, we still say prayers to God in the courtrooms, We got prayer BACK into schools back in 1986. Sorry but i still do not see where religion cannot participate in our government. IT simply is not restricted, and the government cannot stop it according tothe 1st amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherTraveler Posted March 20, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,595 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 20, 2007 Theres no national religion. but that doesn't negate the fact that chritians founded this country. I can guarantee you it wasn't islam! It wasn't athiests, or buddists. There is a reason that the nations that walk in those false religions live for the most part in desesrt or poverty situations, the lie that they put forth can't be blessed by the God that gives life and breath to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted March 20, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Theres no national religion. but that doesn't negate the fact that chritians founded this country. I can guarantee you it wasn't islam! It wasn't athiests, or buddists. There is a reason that the nations that walk in those false religions live for the most part in desesrt or poverty situations, the lie that they put forth can't be blessed by the God that gives life and breath to all. Amen! IF it weren't for God being the foundation of this country, we wouldn't have become the ONLY country in this world to have the same form of Government for over 200 years. No other form of Government in the world has ever lasted past 200 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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