9/11 and the War on Terror

[jgarden]

jgarden: In your vast knowledge and wisdom of Islam and the Islamic world, and with your near perfect grasp of the flow of modern history, pray, do tell us what the 'motivation' of Bin Ladin and other such cretans is.

I await with bated breath..................

I hope you weren't forced to hold your "bated breath" too long.

People are people, fundamentalists are fundamentalists, religious fanatics are religious fanatics - and we shouldn't brand every Moslem as a terrorist and more than every Christian is.

The Greatest Commandment instructs Christians to love their neighbors as they would themselves - these "cretans" are part of God's creation and He loves each and every one of them as he loves you.

It is easy to love people who love you, but the real test of our faith comes when you show love to those who hate you.

When we throw our Christian values "out the window" during difficult times, what is the difference between us and non Believers ?

Remember - when these same Islamic Fundamentalists were attacking the Soviets in Afghanistan, they were "freedom fighters," but when they attack America they suddenly become terrorists."

Edited April 1, 2007 by jgarden

[ted]

Remember - when these same Islamic Fundamentalists were attacking the Soviets in Afghanistan, they were "freedom fighters," but when they attack America they suddenly become terrorists."

That's because the Soviets invaded Afghanistan to gain land and expand their borders. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was not based on a threat from the Afghan people or any terrorist group which the ruling party of Afghanistan allowed to run terrorist training camps from. There was no 9/11 style attack on the Soviet Union caused by a group residing and training in Afghanistan.

In short, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was a land grab attempt.

However, the US invasion of Afghanistan was a result of the ruling party of the country at the time's refusal to give up the terrorist organization which we felt was responsible for the attacks on 9/11.

Point two: Most of "these same" islamic fundamentalists that we were supporting in the resistance of the Soviet invasion were, and are, not "the same" islamic fundamentalists that we are currently (in the last 6 years or so) labeling terrorists at all!

The ruling party at the time of the US invasion of Afghanistan, known, as the Taliban, was from the southern area of Kandahar. These were not that same people who were in charge of the country during the Soviet invasion of 1979 or so. In fact, the Taliban were not even a party at the time, they came about some years later.

The group we did support, and base most of our help on later became known as the Northern Alliance during the years of the Taliban's rise in power. They were two completely different groups at war with each other.

So yes, these "freedom fighters" of the northern regions earned their name several times over. They fought bravely against the Soviet invasion, and later against the aggressive take-over of the country by the hands of the Taliban. The northern region was the only area where the Taliban was not actually able to control and take over completely.

This same Taliban, once in power, allowed Osama Bin Laden and his group, Al-Qaeda, refuge in Afghanistan and gave them free reign to train for the up coming attacks against the US and other western nations and interests.

We invaded Afghanistan due to the Taliban's refusal to hand over the ones we suspected of planning and executing the events of 9/11, simple as that.

So, the people we helped in the North against the Soviet invasion were far different than the Taliban. Two different groups entirely. In fact, the Taliban was not even a party at the time of the Soviet invasion.

To add to all of this, Osama Bin Laden was also in the early stages of forming what later became known as Al-Qaeda during the Soviet invasion, but broke away from the main group from the North to later move into several countries looking for a place to grow. His main difference with the leaders of the Northern Alliance was that Bin Laden wanted to expand operations to eventually launch attacks against western powers, but the leaders of the Northern Alliance wanted no part of attacking the very people who just helped them beat the Soviets out of their country. To them, we helped them expel the Russians, and they were thankful for the help. They wanted no part of attacking the ones that just helped them liberate their area.

Besides that, they wanted no part of expanding wars. Their area was now free of the Russians, and that was their only goal.

Why do you think Osama left Afghanistan in the first place? He didn't come back until years later, and only then after a new ruling party, the Taliban, fought their way to the top.

Point three: Most of the group known as Al-Qaeda were not even Afghans in the first place! They were from other counties like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and several others who were using the opportunity afforded them by the Taliban to use Afghanistan as a training ground for their group's activities.

Again, these are not the same people who we were supporting during the resistance of the Soviet invasion. The ones who we were supporting during this time are not the same as the ones who attacked us on 9/11, not even close.

All in all, you cannot make a statement like the one you did and make it stick. The facts support another view.

t.

[Leonard]

jgarden: In your vast knowledge and wisdom of Islam and the Islamic world, and with your near perfect grasp of the flow of modern history, pray, do tell us what the 'motivation' of Bin Ladin and other such cretans is.

I await with bated breath..................

I hope you weren't forced to hold your "bated breath" too long.

People are people, fundamentalists are fundamentalists, religious fanatics are religious fanatics - and we shouldn't brand every Moslem as a terrorist and more than every Christian is.

The Greatest Commandment instructs Christians to love their neighbors as they would themselves - these "cretans" are part of God's creation and He loves each and every one of them as he loves you.

It is easy to love people who love you, but the real test of our faith comes when you show love to those who hate you.

When we throw our Christian values "out the window" during difficult times, what is the difference between us and non Believers ?

Remember - when these same Islamic Fundamentalists were attacking the Soviets in Afghanistan, they were "freedom fighters," but when they attack America they suddenly become terrorists."

So you decided NOT to answer the question posed but rather to misdirect and obfuscate. You have displayed a tremendous misunderstanding of Christianity and of Islam. You have also demonstrated you do not understand either the letter of Scriptures, the spirit of the Scriptures, nor do you seem to know much about the Author of the Scriptures.

The Scripture indicates that God hates some evildoers, depending, it seems on how utterly contemptable are his deeds. It seems God especially hates those who 'shed innocent blood.' Therefore if we also hate them, we are taking the same attitude as our Father in Heaven. "Have I not hated them who hated Thee? Yea, I have hated them with a perfect hatred," is a perfectly valid Scripture.

"Remember - when these same Islamic Fundamentalists were attacking the Soviets in Afghanistan, they were "freedom fighters," but when they attack America they suddenly become terrorists," you wrote above. You clearly never met any of those noble men called the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. I, on the other hand, knew many. THOSE PEOPLE LOVED AMERICA! They appreciated us for helping drive the Russion SOLDIERS out of their country.

So, Number 1: You are presenting the old Leftist lie (again....and again.....and again.....) that "One man's terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter." STOP THAT LYING! Terrorists are in the business of deliberately targeting and killing innocent civilians. Read that again. With that explanation anyone--provided their IQ exceeds their collar measurement--will be able to tell the difference.

And, Number 2: You are completely confused over the Mujahideen of that era, and the Taliban/Al Qaeda fruitcakes we went in to fight. Those now aging Mujahideen will still fight by our side as we go against the Taliban. These old Mujahideen are men of great honor, and valor, and I will not let you or anyone else smear them with the dreadful lies you have been taught.

Although they may be of the same religion professed by the Al Qaeda, the Mujahideen are men of a different stripe altogether, and deserve credit for their bravery and loyalty.

Love one another.