Guest man Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 It been stated that the 4th beast in Daniel 7 was the kingdom of Alexander the Great. Your thought's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal-Cain Posted March 25, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1981 Share Posted March 25, 2007 It been stated that the 4th beast in Daniel 7 was the kingdom of Alexander the Great. Your thought's. I fully agree. The little horn that spoke arrogantly refers to Antiochus IV Epiphanes who persecuted the Jews and the Jewish religion. For more information on this persecution and the Maccabean revolt I recommend reading the books of 1 Maccabees and 2 Maccabees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted March 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted March 25, 2007 It been stated that the 4th beast in Daniel 7 was the kingdom of Alexander the Great. Your thought's. Was thinking about the horns not the 4th beast, the little horn on the goat is Alexander, the 4th is revived Rome, not Alexander. Greece would be the 3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal-Cain Posted March 25, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1981 Share Posted March 25, 2007 A key element to this is in verse 23 where it says the 4th beast shall devour the "whole earth" Alexander the Great did not conquer the whole earth and it should not be assumed that he did so symbolically in this situation. In the Hebrew Bible the term "whole earth" often just means the civilized world known to the Jews. Hence the Greek empire fits the bill. Recall that the idea of the four kingdoms is introduced in Daniel 2. The first kingdom is explicitly associated with Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom, the Babylonian empire (2:38). The next three kingdoms are said to follow the first kingdom. Hence those kingdoms must refer to the Median empire, Persian empire, and the Greek empire. Note that the third kingdom, the Persian empire, is said to rule the whole earth (2:39). It is then conquered by the fourth kingdom, the Greek empire. Thus, your objection here is not valid. In verse 26 we also have Judgment being passed on the 4th beast defining the destruction of this 4th empire by the Second Coming, . If it was the empire of Alexander the Great that Judgment was cast upon, why does Daniel 7 speak of Christs return and His Kingdom (v.13-14) at the same time or immediately following the destruction of this 4th empire or beast? Because the book of Daniel was composed during the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes (by 164 BC) and made a false prophecy about the future. This date explains three facts about the book of Daniel: 1 - Certain historical errors regarding the Babylonian and Median empires. Such errors are understandable if the author was writing 400 years after the fact but inexplicable if the author wrote during the exilic period. 2 - The book of Daniel is incredibly accurate regarding the events from the Persian empire down to the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes. The fact that the book dwells on the events of Antiochus and is very accurate in describing those events is best explained if the author lived during and shortly after said events. 3 - The book of Daniel does not correctly predict Antiochus' demise and the end of Seleucid domination over Jerusalem. This is best explained if we posit that the author wrote before those events occurred. Josh-13, this dating is not the result of naturalism. It is an attempt to date the book of Daniel in a fashion that adequately explains the contents of the book. If one were to propose that the book was written during the exilic period or right afterward then you must (a) explain how such a person could make errors about a period of the near past and (b) explain how a prophet could be so accurate down to the time of Antiochus but err on the end of Antiochus' rule in Israel. This dating is not new for it was proposed in the 3rd century AD by the Neoplatonist philospher Porphyry and since the 18th century has been accepted by most biblical scholars. The New Jerome Biblical Commentary, a Catholic compendium of biblical scholarship, and the Jewish Encyclopedia (from the turn of the last century) make the same case that I'm making now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Because the book of Daniel was composed during the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes (by 164 BC) and made a false prophecy about the future. So are you saying Daniel was a false prophet? Or are you saying the interpretation he received was false? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal-Cain Posted March 25, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1981 Share Posted March 25, 2007 So are you saying Daniel was a false prophet? No, because I don't think the words attributed to him were actually spoken by him. Whoever wrote the book in the 2nd century BC made the error, not Daniel or the angel who supposedly interpreted the vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 So are you saying Daniel was a false prophet? No, because I don't think the words attributed to him were actually spoken by him. Whoever wrote the book in the 2nd century BC made the error, not Daniel or the angel who supposedly interpreted the vision. So which parts of Daniel are real and which parts are false? Is it possible that the entire book was written after the fact? My personal belief is that there is no error in the words of Daniel. The 4th kingdom in my opinion, is in the process of building itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted March 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Danial 8:20-24 20 The ram which you saw, having the two horns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Danial 8:20-24 20 The ram which you saw, having the two horns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted March 26, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Danial 8:20-24 20 The ram which you saw, having the two horns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts