Communism

[rtwo]

The reason many Americans (myself among them) are so dead-set against anything that even smells of Communism is that, by definition, Communism is at odds with liberty. Liberty, one of three God-granted fundamental principals this nation was built upon (the others being Life and the Pursuit of Happiness), within the framework of the Constitution, is the ability of the citizen to conduct his own life and business any way he sees fit, so long as in so doing he is not flagrantly violating the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of his fellow citizens.

When you begin adding communist principals to this framework (as, sadly, has been done in many states -- my current residency of New York among them), you eat away at that liberty that, even according to our Constitution, was never the government's to grant. As you add legislation and regulation (which is often totally unneccessary, and many times purely the result of union gladhanding and bribery), you pull the pure control of life and business away from the citizen. Why is this a bad thing? I'll repeat: The Constitution states that we are endowed by our creator the rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. This means that our Founding Fathers knew this was not something the government was capable of "granting" -- nor of taking away. And indeed, they realized that if the government were to begin stripping those things away, that government would be moving away from their intentions, and nearer and nearer to tyranny.

[Leonard]

Government controlled health care for a population of 10, 20, even 50 million people may not be a bad thing. It is easy to manage, things are generally localized, so the government can handle it. However, government controlled health care for 300 million people is a bit different. Most government organizations that apply to everyone in the US are often the hardest and most difficult programs to get through. In other words, a government health care system might actually do more damage than help anyone.

This is coming from someone that currently cannot afford health care...so I actually do have a risk when I state that I am not for a universal health care system.

So it wouldn't be possible to take Canada's system and replicate it on a larger scale? Because while I realize Canada's healthcare has it's flaws, it it fairly efficient and hasn't resulted in any mass deficit. Would it be impossible to break the US into several regions (perhaps even just use the existing states) and have the healthcare controlled independantly?

And of course, my real issue isn't just health care, it's why anything communism related is instantly considered wrong. Like cmparing the two side by side, obviously Capitalism works best (See Berlin prior to the wall) but is it so crazy to consider that a combination of the two might work well?

We already have a government-run health care system; just look at what a GREAT job the V.A. does!

[apothanein kerdos]

Government controlled health care for a population of 10, 20, even 50 million people may not be a bad thing. It is easy to manage, things are generally localized, so the government can handle it. However, government controlled health care for 300 million people is a bit different. Most government organizations that apply to everyone in the US are often the hardest and most difficult programs to get through. In other words, a government health care system might actually do more damage than help anyone.

This is coming from someone that currently cannot afford health care...so I actually do have a risk when I state that I am not for a universal health care system.

So it wouldn't be possible to take Canada's system and replicate it on a larger scale? Because while I realize Canada's healthcare has it's flaws, it it fairly efficient and hasn't resulted in any mass deficit. Would it be impossible to break the US into several regions (perhaps even just use the existing states) and have the healthcare controlled independantly?

And of course, my real issue isn't just health care, it's why anything communism related is instantly considered wrong. Like cmparing the two side by side, obviously Capitalism works best (See Berlin prior to the wall) but is it so crazy to consider that a combination of the two might work well?

We already have a government-run health care system; just look at what a GREAT job the V.A. does!

Very good point.

[Smalcald]

Our healthcare system in the US does not work; it is expensive and does not provide us with good health, what is the point?

If you could show me that although we had an expensive system, we got good care and most people were served I may change my mind, but that is not true. Some people get great care, some people get no care, and many people get marginally crappy care.

I am not saying we should adopt the Canadian system, but we need some major changes. People in Canada live longer and pay per-capita less than we do in the US. So in essence we have an expensive system that does not work. National health insurance may not be optimal but it is better than what we have now.

How can we call ourselves a superpower when our people don't live as long as those in other countries? One of the definitions of an advanced country is the health of its people.

[apothanein kerdos]

Our healthcare system in the US does not work; it is expensive and does not provide us with good health, what is the point?

If you could show me that although we had an expensive system, we got good care and most people were served I may change my mind, but that is not true. Some people get great care, some people get no care, and many people get marginally crappy care.

I am not saying we should adopt the Canadian system, but we need some major changes. People in Canada live longer and pay per-capita less than we do in the US. So in essence we have an expensive system that does not work. National health insurance may not be optimal but it is better than what we have now.

Do you have to live without health care? I do, and have the past few years. I can tell you right now - I'd rather go without Health Care than have the government pay for it. The reason is that nothing good can come from such a system.

It would be much better to have State or county health care systems...a federal one is just asking for major problems.

[GeneV]

I don't understand why communism has become nearly a swear-word in North America.

So why do people act like Communism is intrinsically evil?

Think democide (genocide and mass murder) on a scale unheard of before communism as a form of government became a reality (Russia, 1917). How many killed - about 110,000,000 give or take a few million. Pol Pot and Company (Cambodia) killed about 2,000,000 of their own between 1975 and 1978 - out of a population of 7,000,000.

Sorry I disagree that the regimes in the countries you mention or any that currently espouse communism actually practice/d the system as originally intended, they should be termed as Lenist/ Maoist or Trotskyist, even Marx missed the point. In an imperfect world inhabited by imperfect people this utopian form of classless society can never work. Perhaps the Essenes in the 1st & 2nd Century were closest to true communism although their approach was not exactly ideal either.

[Leonard]

I don't understand why communism has become nearly a swear-word in North America.

So why do people act like Communism is intrinsically evil?

Think democide (genocide and mass murder) on a scale unheard of before communism as a form of government became a reality (Russia, 1917). How many killed - about 110,000,000 give or take a few million. Pol Pot and Company (Cambodia) killed about 2,000,000 of their own between 1975 and 1978 - out of a population of 7,000,000.

Sorry I disagree that the regimes in the countries you mention or any that currently espouse communism actually practice/d the system as originally intended, they should be termed as Lenist/ Maoist or Trotskyist, even Marx missed the point. In an imperfect world inhabited by imperfect people this utopian form of classless society can never work. Perhaps the Essenes in the 1st & 2nd Century were closest to true communism although their approach was not exactly ideal either.

Gene V: It works EXACTLY AS MARX TRULY INTENDED. Please read the UNABRIDGED, UNEDITED personal correspondence which passed for decades between Marx and Engles. You will find that Marx says over and over again that he utterly hates mankind, and is deliberately designing a system which bring 'permenant fire and blood' upon mankind.

It is a system designed in league with the devil to cause death and misery wherever it can. LEARN.

[Leonard]

I don't understand why communism has become nearly a swear-word in North America.

So why do people act like Communism is intrinsically evil?

Think democide (genocide and mass murder) on a scale unheard of before communism as a form of government became a reality (Russia, 1917). How many killed - about 110,000,000 give or take a few million. Pol Pot and Company (Cambodia) killed about 2,000,000 of their own between 1975 and 1978 - out of a population of 7,000,000.

Sorry I disagree that the regimes in the countries you mention or any that currently espouse communism actually practice/d the system as originally intended, they should be termed as Lenist/ Maoist or Trotskyist, even Marx missed the point. In an imperfect world inhabited by imperfect people this utopian form of classless society can never work. Perhaps the Essenes in the 1st & 2nd Century were closest to true communism although their approach was not exactly ideal either.

Gene V: It works EXACTLY AS MARX TRULY INTENDED. Please read the UNABRIDGED, UNEDITED personal correspondence which passed for decades between Marx and Engles. You will find that Marx says over and over again that he utterly hates mankind, and is deliberately designing a system which bring 'permenant fire and blood' upon mankind.

It is a system designed in league with the devil to cause death and misery wherever it can. LEARN.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

I don't understand why communism has become nearly a swear-word in North America.

So why do people act like Communism is intrinsically evil?

Think democide (genocide and mass murder) on a scale unheard of before communism as a form of government became a reality (Russia, 1917). How many killed - about 110,000,000 give or take a few million. Pol Pot and Company (Cambodia) killed about 2,000,000 of their own between 1975 and 1978 - out of a population of 7,000,000.

Sorry I disagree that the regimes in the countries you mention or any that currently espouse communism actually practice/d the system as originally intended, they should be termed as Lenist/ Maoist or Trotskyist, even Marx missed the point. In an imperfect world inhabited by imperfect people this utopian form of classless society can never work. Perhaps the Essenes in the 1st & 2nd Century were closest to true communism although their approach was not exactly ideal either.

Gene V: It works EXACTLY AS MARX TRULY INTENDED. Please read the UNABRIDGED, UNEDITED personal correspondence which passed for decades between Marx and Engles. You will find that Marx says over and over again that he utterly hates mankind, and is deliberately designing a system which bring 'permenant fire and blood' upon mankind.

It is a system designed in league with the devil to cause death and misery wherever it can. LEARN.

I am currently looking through some of the correspondence between the two, and cannot find anything that backs up your claim. Granted, there are a lot of letters, and I haven't been able to go through even half yet. Could you direct me to the specific letters you are referencing, if you remember which they were?

Thanks.

[shorryshaggy]

Government controlled health care for a population of 10, 20, even 50 million people may not be a bad thing. It is easy to manage, things are generally localized, so the government can handle it. However, government controlled health care for 300 million people is a bit different. Most government organizations that apply to everyone in the US are often the hardest and most difficult programs to get through. In other words, a government health care system might actually do more damage than help anyone.

This is coming from someone that currently cannot afford health care...so I actually do have a risk when I state that I am not for a universal health care system.

So it wouldn't be possible to take Canada's system and replicate it on a larger scale? Because while I realize Canada's healthcare has it's flaws, it it fairly efficient and hasn't resulted in any mass deficit. Would it be impossible to break the US into several regions (perhaps even just use the existing states) and have the healthcare controlled independantly?

And of course, my real issue isn't just health care, it's why anything communism related is instantly considered wrong. Like cmparing the two side by side, obviously Capitalism works best (See Berlin prior to the wall) but is it so crazy to consider that a combination of the two might work well?

We already have a government-run health care system; just look at what a GREAT job the V.A. does!

almost as good as oregon's current government health care system