Are we commanded to cut our hair or not?

[exrockstar]

I thought I'd post something that maybe Shiloh may look into.

for some reason I havent seen no one touch this part of the scripture.

I think we've established that (i.e.) prostitues used to shave their head or wear wigs.

While it seems as though Paul is (shilohs defense) only talking to the Church at Corinth.

He writes:

1 cor 11

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

this is a standard that is to every Church.

So Shilohs position that it's "only to Corinth" now goes against scripture.

Just putting it out there with love.... ... 3xR0c|<stAr c-u-l8r

[Guest shiloh357]

It is my belief that the epistles, though written to individual churches, are the Word of God. Yes, Paul wrote Corinthians to a church at Corinth, but God used him to write this to become the Word of God, and it's applications apply to all.

Yes, but there is a difference between spiritual and practical applications. While the spiritual lessons and applications are obviously universal, it is the practical applications that are limited in scope. That is the problem here. You are trying to make Paul's personal advice to a specific audience practically applicable to all people, and that is simply wrong.

The true target audience from God's viewpoint is the entire Christian Church. I have no way to verify anything you said in relation to the conditions at Corinth. You may have read those things in some text book, but it cannot be proven, and even if it could, you can't prove that the intent of Paul was that this only apply to the Corinthians.

For one thing, Butero, we can visit the ruins of the ancient Temples, AND we can visit the ruins of the ancient Oracles of Delphi. Those are historically verifiable historical locations. The immorality of Greece and especially of Corinth is documented in many places. Even most Christian scholars are aware of the rampant immorality that existed in Corinth and struggle the Corinthians had with it.

I don't know what your standard of proof would be, but given what is known about the lifestyle of Corinthians, and their behavior, it doesn't take six brain cells rubbing together to read the book of 1 Corinthians and note how historically relevant it really is. In fact, it is EXACTLY this cultural/historical relevance (which you hold as unverifiable) that attests to the integrity and reliablity of the Bible. For you to reject the obvious historical/cultural connection this letter has with the lifestyle of Corinth is to remove/reject part of our case for the Bible's veracity and reliability.

The Biblical truths on clean and unclean foods were made known in Acts through Peter's vision. Yes, I can make a distinction in what applies to us today and what doesn't.

No, the issue about Peter's vision was that Gentiles were not unclean. Peter recounts the vision twice and never mentions an abrogation of the dietary commandments. Peter understood the vision to be referring to Gentiles. No commentary in the Bible references that vision as an abolition of kosher laws. People like you pencil that in, but you do with no biblical or hermeneutic authority. I am not saying we have to remain kosher. I am simply saying that Peter's vision does not make that case.

The issue of hair length applies to the entire Christian Church. I guess we will simply never agree on this.

Only because you insist on holding to the incorrect position.

[roselady]

I am pretty sure Samson cut his hair because of that bad woman Deliah she was out to do him harm and all. You guys have read that story right? It is like he chose that woman over God.

The reason Samson couldn't cut his hair was due to a Nazarite vow. It is ok for someone with such a vow to not cut their hair till the time of the vow is up. Afterward, they are to shave their head and weigh the hair. Samson was a Nazarite for life. We are not speaking of those under a Nazarite vow, so what you said is irrelivant.

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I rarely am. However, I am pretty sure that Samson didn't cut his hair because GOD told him not to.

[Guest shiloh357]

I thought I'd post something that maybe Shiloh may look into.

for some reason I havent seen no one touch this part of the scripture.

I think we've established that (i.e.) prostitues used to shave their head or wear wigs.

While it seems as though Paul is (shilohs defense) only talking to the Church at Corinth.

He writes:

1 cor 11

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

this is a standard that is to every Church.

So Shilohs position that it's "only to Corinth" now goes against scripture.

Your response is fundamentally flawed because you either haven't actually read what I have posted, or are purposely ignoring the points I have raised just you have something silly to argue about.

My point has been that there are sections of 1 Corinthians such as in chapter 11 where Paul is addresing issues that were of primary and specific to Corinthians given their situation. I never said that the letter of 1 Corinthians has no relevance or application for anyone else, namely us. What I am saying is that in the epistles we have a mixture of remarks by Paul both of a doctrinal nature and thus universal in applicability and we also have advice that was more personal in nature that addressed their specific needs. While we can gain spiritual nourishment from even the personal advice, it is a mistake to take personal advice and make general/universal doctrines out of it. That is all I am saying. I never said that we should treat 1 Corinthians as only being for them. So, you're silly attmpt to refute me falls flat, chief.

Perhaps, you need to start actually reading what I have posted before trying to refute arguments I have not raised or positions that I do not hold. That would be the intelligent way to proceed at this point.

[exrockstar]

shiloh it sounds like youre getting frustrated. dont be.

Everyone will be accountable of their actions anyways.

besides, your head is more on the chopping block than mine.

My stance is a little more conservative and yours is more liberal.

I would advise you say things like "I believe so and so does not apply..." because to say what

applies and does not carries serious responsibility. Luckily, this doesnt affect salvation.

I know everyone is jumping on the "God released us from laws and legalism...."

If looks werent important they wouldn't have of been addressed. Paul could of easily

not said a word and let "God see through their hearts." Thats the mainstream message nowadays: God knows

your heart.

I'm agreeing that we're disagreeing so Im out of this thread ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[rtwo]

I would suggest that worrying about hair length is just not something within God's character. When we look at the ministry of Christ, we see that such shallow issues simply don't come up. In the letter to Corinth, Paul was worried about contention splitting the church, and he made a decision. Somehow, I just don't see judgement being, "yeah, you knew Me, and you comforted widows and gave food to the hungry... but your hair was too long."

[Floatingaxe]

People would run a mile if everyone presented the idea that all women were to have long hair and all me were to have sghort hair! We would be oddities like the Amish or something. That is NOT God's way. He gives us autonomy about our appearance.

That is absolute rubbish. I would be far more likely to join a church where the women had long hair and the men had short hair. As a matter of fact, for the most part the church I sometimes go to in Charlotte is like that, with the exception of the occassional visitors.

This is just an observation, but there has been a great deal said about how in recent days, there has been a lot of men who have abandoned the churches, and all that is left are large congregations made up mostly of women. In my case, much of the problem has been the fact the churches have abandoned following the Bible and have become of no value because they resemble the world too much. That includes women having short hair and wearing pants. Perhaps Floatingaxe it would run off the feminist women that make up much of the congregations, but at the same time, the current trends may be repulsive to a large number of men.

By the way, please provide scripture and verse where the Bible says God "gives us autonomy about our appearance." I don't remember reading that in scripture.

Oh, brother!

The churches are dying today because people deny the fullness of the Holy Spirit, and give place to the spirit of religion, working and striving for outward righteousness, and not allowing the Holy Spirit to do the work in them that He wants.

Men don't want their lot, and women are stepping up to the plate.

Personally, I don't see that in my own church. Men and women serve the Lord side by side. Nowhere does it tell us how to dress or wear our hair in this century. Some of the most Godly and powerfully gifted women in the Lord that I know have short hair..so if God is blessing them abundantly and using them in kingdom-building, then He isn't holding them to such a measuring stick, is He? This is proof to me that the strict and misplaced adherence to the letter and not the spirit of what Paul was saying is the issue in many of you. Once again it boils down to a spirit of legalism that is evident in many concerning these things...hair and dress, and it seems odd that it is mainly the males that are having the issues! Weird to me!

1 Timothy 2:9...

And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes.

This is the idea: no vanity, please!

[Floatingaxe]

Hair? I dont think it really matters, you should see my hair (or maybe not, bad hair day) hehehe. Its got a mind of its own, curley and all. Naww, I think what really matters is how you are on the inside. The Lord said something like this. The Lord seeith not as man seeith but the Lord looketh not on the outward appearance. Sorry if my quote is a bit off, its all from memory. Plus King James is hard, I like NASB best, especially John MacArthurs Study bible.

The reason Samson couldn't cut his hair was due to a Nazarite vow. It is ok for someone with such a vow to not cut their hair till the time of the vow is up. Afterward, they are to shave their head and weigh the hair. Samson was a Nazarite for life. We are not speaking of those under a Nazarite vow, so what you said is irrelivant.

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I rarely am. However, I am pretty sure that Samson didn't cut his hair because GOD told him not to.

Yes, roselady, you are right. God looks on the heart of a man, and not on his outward appearance.

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh it sounds like youre getting frustrated. dont be.

Everyone will be accountable of their actions anyways.

besides, your head is more on the chopping block than mine.

My stance is a little more conservative and yours is more liberal.

I would advise you say things like "I believe so and so does not apply..." because to say what

applies and does not carries serious responsibility. Luckily, this doesnt affect salvation.

I know everyone is jumping on the "God released us from laws and legalism...."

If looks werent important they wouldn't have of been addressed. Paul could of easily

not said a word and let "God see through their hearts." Thats the mainstream message nowadays: God knows

your heart.

I'm agreeing that we're disagreeing so Im out of this thread ... 3xR0c|<stAr

I am not frustrated at all, buddy. I am simply pointing out the fact that the weakness of your stance agaisnt me is based upon accusing me of holding to a postion I have not stated. You are trying to assign values and arguments to me that I have not rasied, and it is very dishonest and unChristian approach.

I have nothing on the chopping block. Your position is neither conservative nor liberal. It is just wrong. It is wrong due to the lack of honesty and Christian integrity with which you have approached my posts.

If you cannot practice more integrity in this discussion, then yes, I think it is a good thing for you to remove yourself.

[Floatingaxe]

She can't answer your questions because she doesn't know the answers.

The way she flip flops on most issues, one would think she is John Kerry.

Wow! How extraordinarily unkind!

Luke 6:45

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

I neither flip flop, nor do I not know whereof I speak. What I ever lack in knowledge, my Lord provides the truth of the matter by His Spirit through His Word...as He should be doing also with you, as you so allow.

May God bless you and yours abundantly this Easter.