Iryssa Posted May 6, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Page get stuck, Elyahuw? Or are you just REALLY trying to make your point? (no worries...happens all the time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted May 6, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Page get stuck, Elyahuw? Or are you just REALLY trying to make your point? (no worries...happens all the time) Yeah that is one thing that is aggrevating. Sits there forever then times out. Then you end up with another post if you refresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 8, 2007 So what is the bottom line of self defence in Christ Jesus. If you want to defend your self then It has to be by faith in God. Any other Choice will return upon your own head unless you repent. How did Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego defend themselves against evil. How did Daniel defend Himself against the Lions. How did Elijah defend himself from the armies of the wicked? Now Christ has come and showed you the way by example. The Just shall live by faith but the wicked will murder each other. The morning is about to dawn an on that day the faith of all will be tested. Hebrews 10 38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." 1 Peter 1 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 Corinthians 3 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Well neither did Christ condemn the soldier's who He ministered to. He did not tell the Roman Centurion who believed to quite being a centurion, He said your faith has saved your servant. The Centurion Had fiath that moved Christ to heal his servant. But no where does it say that the centurion or his servant were saved. Scripture says that all who have faith are saved. But why did not Christ take the opportunity to chastise this soldier for his bloody business? No, in fact Christ never once denounces the military office or soldiers in general. He actually uses soldiers in some of His parables. Obviously Christ calls us to be non-violent loving people, in an almost radical way. I think particularly in our personal lives and interactions. But the business of national defense or at a micro level home and family defense are left for our decisions to be done in an honorable way. The fact is we are provided with moral dilemmas all of the time in which violence must sometimes be used for the greater good. We are called to be "blameless and harmless in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" and we are also called to live peaceably with other people to the degree that this is up to us.. So yes we should be seen as probably the most peaceful people in the world, but we are also called to do our duty to our country and our family, that may mean military service in war, it may mean police work, and it may mean as a last resort using violence to defend our families. I believe we should always use lethal force as the last resort in self defense. An argument from silence can never be used to affirm the positive. We are called to be heavenly citizens and dead to this world. LT Right. We are also told to remain in the calling in which we were called as believers. But what does doing the honorable thing have to do with your statement? As Christians we are called to support our government which was instituted by God and our leaders which scripture also says were put there by God (as bad as they are sometimes). I don't think the centurion example is an argument from silence though. But what do you mean affirm the positive? Certainly Christ and all of the scriptures are affirming that we should be peace loving non-violent people, I totally agree with that. But scripture also says to be good citizens and to take care of our families, both of those things may mean that we must use force in extreme situations. But we are never to be seen as brawlers or fighters or aggressors. In general we should be seen as people that would rarely if ever use violence. I do worry when I see Christians who seem to relish violence, any believer, except a psychopath, who has actually experienced true violence, will hate it, no matter how it is used. I am sure the police on this board can attest to that or anybody who has actually seen combat can attest to that. But part of my duty as a citizen of heaven is to defend my family. Remember the world as used in scripture is not the physical world, but the lusts of the world, in fact is in doing very mundane things we are often being dead to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted May 8, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I don't think there is anything wrong with defending yourself. I had a guy come up to me in our Walmart parking lot one day and put his hand my shoulder. He wanted money. I told him if he didnt' get away I would drop him like yesterdays lunch. He left. I shook all the way home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted May 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I don't think there is anything wrong with defending yourself. I had a guy come up to me in our Walmart parking lot one day and put his hand my shoulder. He wanted money. I told him if he didnt' get away I would drop him like yesterdays lunch. He left. I shook all the way home. Did you ever think to share the gospel with him? LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted May 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I don't think there is anything wrong with defending yourself. I had a guy come up to me in our Walmart parking lot one day and put his hand my shoulder. He wanted money. I told him if he didnt' get away I would drop him like yesterdays lunch. He left. I shook all the way home. Did you ever think to share the gospel with him? LT Frankly, I would've been too scared and too ticked off to think of that. I'm sorry, but it's true. Besides, I sincerely doubt the guy would've been receptive. Maybe YOU could've shared the gospel with him, but then, you're a guy, so he probably wouldn't have approached you in the first place, and if he had, he would have been a little more cautious with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted May 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I don't think there is anything wrong with defending yourself. I had a guy come up to me in our Walmart parking lot one day and put his hand my shoulder. He wanted money. I told him if he didnt' get away I would drop him like yesterdays lunch. He left. I shook all the way home. Did you ever think to share the gospel with him? LT Frankly, I would've been too scared and too ticked off to think of that. I'm sorry, but it's true. Besides, I sincerely doubt the guy would've been receptive. Maybe YOU could've shared the gospel with him, but then, you're a guy, so he probably wouldn't have approached you in the first place, and if he had, he would have been a little more cautious with you. Hi Iryssa, What do the following verses have to deal with. Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. If you are born again why should you fear/be scared? LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted May 8, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I don't think there is anything wrong with defending yourself. I had a guy come up to me in our Walmart parking lot one day and put his hand my shoulder. He wanted money. I told him if he didnt' get away I would drop him like yesterdays lunch. He left. I shook all the way home. Did you ever think to share the gospel with him? LT Frankly, I would've been too scared and too ticked off to think of that. I'm sorry, but it's true. Besides, I sincerely doubt the guy would've been receptive. Maybe YOU could've shared the gospel with him, but then, you're a guy, so he probably wouldn't have approached you in the first place, and if he had, he would have been a little more cautious with you. Hi Iryssa, What do the following verses have to deal with. Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. If you are born again why should you fear/be scared? LT Because theres some sick sorry lowlifes out there that would attack a woman alone. thats what she has to fear. these same sick lowlifes don't care what God has to say. She had every reason to be scared with the way things happen now days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK202002 Posted May 8, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 I don't think there is anything wrong with defending yourself. I had a guy come up to me in our Walmart parking lot one day and put his hand my shoulder. He wanted money. I told him if he didnt' get away I would drop him like yesterdays lunch. He left. I shook all the way home. Did you ever think to share the gospel with him? LT Frankly, I would've been too scared and too ticked off to think of that. I'm sorry, but it's true. Besides, I sincerely doubt the guy would've been receptive. Maybe YOU could've shared the gospel with him, but then, you're a guy, so he probably wouldn't have approached you in the first place, and if he had, he would have been a little more cautious with you. Hi Iryssa, What do the following verses have to deal with. Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. If you are born again why should you fear/be scared? LT Because theres some sick sorry lowlifes out there that would attack a woman alone. thats what she has to fear. these same sick lowlifes don't care what God has to say. She had every reason to be scared with the way things happen now days. so? there have have always been rapists and thieves. what do our lives amount to anyway compared to the cause of christ? seriosly. maybe he wouldn't have been receptive to the gospel then.. but years down the road, he could remember and who knows? I'd much rather get jacked while spreading the gospel than jacked while making pathetic protests that may not do any good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I do think that we can be less afraid than the world; Christ comforts me greatly in many situations. Yes fear is part of our human side, those verses do have an impact, and if we had perfect faith we would have no fear, but none of us have that, so we feel fear and this is natural. But once again there is this tension between defense of our families and our calling to be peaceful people. We are called to do both in scripture. It is not an easy thing, thus we have the debate on this board. Consider the German Christian Theologian, Bonehoffer. He had a cushy teaching job here in the U.S. he was an intellectual. Now when Hitler took over in his country nobody would have thought twice about him staying right here and continuing to speak out against the Nazi's. But he felt as a believer he could not abandon his country to this evil. So he returned and worked on an assassination plot to kill Hitler. He was caught and sent to a concentration camp and hanged. He continued to spread the Gospel in that concentration camp to the guards. So, was his violent intent the more or less Christian thing to do? These questions are not easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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