Never get a consistant answer

[Carol R]

Sam, that was about the most beautiful post, story............you name it, that I've ever read. And from the bottom of my heart I think you for sharing it.

Sam I was very touched by your tetimonies they are what its all about thank you.

You have been very blessed.

with love in the Lord Jesus

Carol R

[AnotherTraveler]

As someone 50+, the end of life is not really on the main viewscreen. The wondeful opportunity to walk with Jesus is daily now until it will only be better then. However....

Keep praying, and understand that doctrines are often boiled down from origionally true understandings of the scriptures, but in the boiling process, many times the flavor, the nutrition, and the real value are long gone when the final product emerges.

We have authority, however our authority is under Jesus' authority, in other words, your husband is in prison for a specific purpose (they need light in a dark place). He should share Jesus as much as he can. Do you think Jesus is not aware of where he is? It is tough for you, but often our calling leads us into troubles, and the Lord delivers us out of troubles, but for a time the troubles are appointed to us, for we are bought with a very precious price. Nothing has ever been purchased at a higher price than your soul and your husbands, and Jesus keeps very good track of where we all are, and how we are all doing, whether free or in chains.

The walk in God has some very amazingly odd things in it. The things that we hate the most (as we are going through them) later become very treasured as we reflect onhow the Lord kept us through it all, and we emerge on the other side rejoicing and thankful for the delivery from suffering.

We all know that Moses was sent to deliver Israel out of Egypt, it's a great and amazing story, but the 430 YEARS of slavery in Egypt laid the groundwork for that story, and the fact that a nation was forged in the iron furnace of Egypt was, in fact, the suffering of millions of souls for TWICE AS LONG as the USA has been a nation.

God will turn this weakness into strength and this suffering into rejoicing, that is how He is.

[Guest]

The more time you spend in the Word, the more the Holy Spirit has to work with to help you through this. I won't make it sound like one of those "victory 'til you throw up" preachers you see on tv.

thanks- I think I feel kind of condemed right now. Maybe it's my church, or friends, or maybe it's in my head. Maybe this whole mess will help me walk more humbly. Anyone 50+, is it true that at the end of your life it's common to feel like you will never "get there?"

Well, condemnation and conviction are two different things. Conviction (of a sin, for example) is from the Holy Spirit. Condemnation is from the enemy, and it does no good for us at all. I spent a lot of time in self pity and all the rest because of that. Ask the Lord what it is and where its coming from so you can walk in His wisdom and not your own. Reading through Psalms helps, since there's the full range of emotions in there. There's also an important lesson too: always be thankful and praise the Lord -- no matter what!

As far as church goes, if you are getting rebuffed or rejected because of your husband's being in prison then its probably time to find another one. The Lord will help with this too. All it takes is prayer from an honest heart. There are a couple of churches in my area that say they have support groups to help those going through things like this.

When I was in the Air Force I moved a lot and got pretty good at finding churches to go to whether I was moving into another area, or just there temporarily. I follow the advice I got from an old preacher who is now home with Jesus: Show up in work clothes, not a fancy Sunday morning suit. See how you get treated. One time I did this on a Sunday morning and when I sat down on one end of a 40 foot or so long pew, the family at the other end got up and moved! Mom, Dad, and four kids went and sat somewhere else even though there was at least 30 feet between us. I left and went to another church about a mile away and spent the next 2 years going there.

Hope this helps..............

[Phil.2:12]

To make things simple, I'll come right out with my personal business. And I promise not to hold a grudge if one of you says something insensitive but 'true'. Tell me what you think:

The deal: Three years ago before he was saved my husband committed a couple of crimes. After he was arrested, he genuinly came to Christ (he did, it stuck).

One year ago they finally got around to sentancing him. Make a long story short, he has four more years to go till he comes home.

The damage: I thought he was going to get off with probation. Not because he was good, not because he didn't deserve it, but because I believed God was telling me he would. So this shattering of nievity has caused me to attempt to synthesize everthing back together, and the devil's got his claws in the job.

Stumbling blocks:

*The 'authrity teaching' floating around in my church. We are to take authority and abolish all demonic forces. This put 100% of the responsibility on us. If something bad happens, we should have been able to beat it, we;ve been given the power, etc.

*The 'trials and tribulations' teaching. God puts us through trials for our strenthening. Bad things happen for a believer's good.

* The "God's discipline' or 'natural consequenses' idea. ok, he is our father, but how do we know what he wants us to learn?

So those are three schools of thought I encounter, either in myself or in others when I try to process through this and understand it. They affect how a person views tragetys in others and in themselfves. They are very important. And I am freaking out because I have no idea how God wants me to take this!!

Do I think that I am so perfect as to never have hard times in my life? No, of course not.

Yes, I know there are people out there who suffer so much more than I ever dreamed, and I respect that, but it doesn't answer my questions, only enhance them.

And please don't simplify the dilemma to 'why do bad things happen to me'. I don't care if they happen, I just need to know how to respond.

There is much wisdom in the posts within this thread, especially from those who have jumped through some of the same hoops facing you. When a person has actually walked down a similiar path that now lies before you, their experiences are literally worth their weight in gold and should be so treasured by you. When faced with the path of life that is now before you, please keep 1 Corinthians 10:13 in mind "There hath no temptation taken you but such as common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (KJV). God will never let the pressures of your temptations break your spirit, for He is not in the business of breaking the spirits of His children. That's what Satan does, that's his job and God will never allow Satan to do his spirit-breaking without giving His child a way to escape the pressure. Also please keep in mind what Jesus said in John 10:10 "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy...". It is Satan who is responsible for what your husband did, not God, as you well know. However, just because your husband found Jesus and accepted Him as his Savior before his sentencing does not guarantee that he will not have to pay the price for his earlier folly. Often times, in situations like these, we will turn to God and ask him what the outcome will be, for we are not looking forward to having our loved one forcibly separated from us for any period of time.

This is a guaranteed set-up for Satan. He will deceive you into thinking that the answer you get came from God, not from him. Remember, he is around only to steal, kill and destroy. What better way to destroy the faith of an immature Christian than to tell them that their loved one is not going anywhere and the Christian finds out later that their loved one is going to spend some time away from them because of past unlawful acts. This can be devastating to an immature Christian who places more faith in the dogmas of their church than they do in the Word of God. They become convinced (by Satan) that God must have to lied to them when God never said a word to that child of His. Destroy a child of God's faith and you will destroy the child. That's why God always provides an exit to any pressure that might destroy you.

So what's a gal to do? Four things, Worship, the Word, Prayer, and Fasting. Please get a sound scripture software that will allow you to search the Scriptures by context or by exact words. Personally, I use E-Sword offered free of charge by Ric Renner ministries. However that is not the only program out there, there is one advertised on Worthy that is used heavily by several posters and it seems to be an excellent program as well. You need to be able to get quickly into the Word on whatever subject you are researching so that you can see what the Word says instead of relying on what your preacher says or what your denomination says. There is no guarantee that these sources were or are being led by the Holy Spirit. But if you research the Word of God with the Holy Spirit, you can count on His teachings to be true and correct. I'm not trying to bad-mouth either preachers or denominations, but history has often found them to be on the opposite side of Truth while strongly proclaiming that what they teach is the Truth of God. Trust no one but the Holy Spirit when it comes to understanding the Scriptures, for He will never lead you astray. Be like the Berean Christians who daily searched the Scriptures (only the Old Testament was available to them) to see if what Paul said lined up with what God had said. I know this could be somewhat time-consuming, but the time spent will be well worth it, for the Holy Spirit has much to teach you while you are travelling down this path life has handed you.

Be of good cheer, that light at the end of the tunnel is NOT the headlight of an oncoming train, but is the light of God's love as He continues to mature you in His ways while you walk the path life has handed you.

Edited May 4, 2007 by Phil.2:12

[MK202002]

Dear MK,

I hope I can share this, in a manner that you will receive, but I have to say right off the bat, that the situation your husband is in is in no way relateable to "illness". We, as Christians, have to learn to be completely honest in heart about our circumstances, and we must first and foremost recognize that God is just, and when we do things that are against Him, and His Word, He very clearly states that there are results/penalties. He also tells us that this is why we have the civil authorities in place that we do, to mete out the consequences of breaking the laws of the land. As a citizen, we must be thankful that we do have servants of the land, willing to put their lives on the line, in order to keep us safe in our homes. Now, having said that, we also as Christians, must be wiling to speak the truth in love to one another, and share our burdens. I hear your hurt, in hoping that your husband would be able to be home and out of prison, but you must be honest and willing enough to answer up to the truth, that he did things that were not right, and thus, now he is having to reap the consequences. We also must understand that God is just in all His ways, and if your husband has incurred time, then he must be humble enough to accept the consequences of his actions.......this is pleasing to the Father, and is necessary in order to be in submission to the Father. We have to always be willing to be patient with what takes place and know that God is just. The most important passage with regard to these issues is this....If your husband did something that was against another, and that was in fact against God, he must be satisfied that he is going to reap what has been sown.

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

(I speak of these things from experience. My past is not one I am proud of, and there are some issues that I am still having to deal with, due to the choices I have made. These things are right, otherwise God would not be a "just" and "fair" God. And sometimes, we have to come to the conclusion that these judgments are right and good for us in the longrun.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

Thank you, I totally recieve that. But again- this is not about his struggles, it's about mine. I know why he's in jail, why does God want me to do through this mess? Do you think I sinned? Of course I do, I do every day, as I'm sure you do, but I don't know what God wants me to get out of this.

[tsth]

I know why he's in jail, why does God want me to do through this mess?

I think it is a simple answer......you and your husband are now 1. You will go thru this hardship together, it may be in a different way, but you are going to have to go thru it together, as one, under God's authority. I think it simply comes down to that.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[methinkshe]

Dear MK,

I hope I can share this, in a manner that you will receive, but I have to say right off the bat, that the situation your husband is in is in no way relateable to "illness". We, as Christians, have to learn to be completely honest in heart about our circumstances, and we must first and foremost recognize that God is just, and when we do things that are against Him, and His Word, He very clearly states that there are results/penalties. He also tells us that this is why we have the civil authorities in place that we do, to mete out the consequences of breaking the laws of the land. As a citizen, we must be thankful that we do have servants of the land, willing to put their lives on the line, in order to keep us safe in our homes. Now, having said that, we also as Christians, must be wiling to speak the truth in love to one another, and share our burdens. I hear your hurt, in hoping that your husband would be able to be home and out of prison, but you must be honest and willing enough to answer up to the truth, that he did things that were not right, and thus, now he is having to reap the consequences. We also must understand that God is just in all His ways, and if your husband has incurred time, then he must be humble enough to accept the consequences of his actions.......this is pleasing to the Father, and is necessary in order to be in submission to the Father. We have to always be willing to be patient with what takes place and know that God is just. The most important passage with regard to these issues is this....If your husband did something that was against another, and that was in fact against God, he must be satisfied that he is going to reap what has been sown.

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

(I speak of these things from experience. My past is not one I am proud of, and there are some issues that I am still having to deal with, due to the choices I have made. These things are right, otherwise God would not be a "just" and "fair" God. And sometimes, we have to come to the conclusion that these judgments are right and good for us in the longrun.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

Thank you, I totally recieve that. But again- this is not about his struggles, it's about mine. I know why he's in jail, why does God want me to do through this mess? Do you think I sinned? Of course I do, I do every day, as I'm sure you do, but I don't know what God wants me to get out of this.

We live in a fallen world and the consequences of the Fall are there for all to see, whether it be sin or sickness and disease or even environmental degradation. But, the believer has a wonderful promise:

Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called, according to His purpose. "

My daughter was born normal. When she was 8 months old she suffered oxygen starvation and, as a consequence, brain damage. She is now severely disabled. Did God cause this? No He didn't. Did God know it would happen? Yes, He did. Had God prepared for it in my life? Yes, He had. Was God taken by suprise? No, He wasn't. Was it good that this happened to her? No it wasn't. Can God work it for the good - both hers and mine? Yes, he can! Praise Jesus!

Read the story of Jospeh and his brothers in Genesis. Then apply Romans 8:28 and see how God worked all things together for Joseph's good, and his family's good, even his brothers' who sold him into slavery. They, too, were blessed even out of their evil act. Oh, God is SO GOOD!

Blessings to you and your husband in Jesus.

Ruth

[FighterforJC]

To make things simple, I'll come right out with my personal business. And I promise not to hold a grudge if one of you says something insensitive but 'true'. Tell me what you think:

The deal: Three years ago before he was saved my husband committed a couple of crimes. After he was arrested, he genuinly came to Christ (he did, it stuck).

One year ago they finally got around to sentancing him. Make a long story short, he has four more years to go till he comes home.

The damage: I thought he was going to get off with probation. Not because he was good, not because he didn't deserve it, but because I believed God was telling me he would. So this shattering of nievity has caused me to attempt to synthesize everthing back together, and the devil's got his claws in the job.

Stumbling blocks:

*The 'authrity teaching' floating around in my church. We are to take authority and abolish all demonic forces. This put 100% of the responsibility on us. If something bad happens, we should have been able to beat it, we;ve been given the power, etc.

*The 'trials and tribulations' teaching. God puts us through trials for our strenthening. Bad things happen for a believer's good.

* The "God's discipline' or 'natural consequenses' idea. ok, he is our father, but how do we know what he wants us to learn?

So those are three schools of thought I encounter, either in myself or in others when I try to process through this and understand it. They affect how a person views tragetys in others and in themselfves. They are very important. And I am freaking out because I have no idea how God wants me to take this!!

Do I think that I am so perfect as to never have hard times in my life? No, of course not.

Yes, I know there are people out there who suffer so much more than I ever dreamed, and I respect that, but it doesn't answer my questions, only enhance them.

And please don't simplify the dilemma to 'why do bad things happen to me'. I don't care if they happen, I just need to know how to respond.

"*The 'authrity teaching' floating around in my church. We are to take authority and abolish all demonic forces. This put 100% of the responsibility on us. If something bad happens, we should have been able to beat it, we;ve been given the power, etc."

PURE BALONEY. As much as I hate it sometimes, God answers our prayers the way HE wants to, not the way we want. This "authority teaching" you speak of is heresy, geared to draw a huge following for people who have "itching ears" and want to feel as though THEY have the power, not God. Don't listen to this teaching.

"*The 'trials and tribulations' teaching. God puts us through trials for our strenthening. Bad things happen for a believer's good."

In the grand scheme of things, everything works together for the good to those who love God, the Scriptures say. We go through bad things in our lives and in order to cope better with those things, we are sometimes tempted to try to make sense of everything, why certain things happen. But the fact is, we really won't know for sure until we see Jesus face to face. We just have to trust Him in spite of our circumstances and some of the evil things that happen to us in this life. Easier said than done, I know.

"* The "God's discipline' or 'natural consequenses' idea. ok, he is our father, but how do we know what he wants us to learn? "

Again, we don't know exactly what He wants us to learn. Whatever it is God wanted us to learn through "natural consequences," or whatever you want to call it, we learn it, whether we are aware of it or not. It is not our place to try to figure out why God allows us to go through certain trials. Only two things can result from trying to get into God's head. Either we'll come up with something truly heretical or we'll be extremely frustrated. Trust God. Easier said than done, I know.

"And I am freaking out because I have no idea how God wants me to take this!!"

To be honest, I would freak out, too. I'm not some hyper-spiritual guru who has "already attained." But it is important to keep praying about this. This is probably part spiritual warfare, the timing of things, to shake your faith. We don't know that for sure. We don't know, period. But it very well could be. The only thing you need to realize is that God is worthy and He knows what He is doing. "Oops" is not in His vocabulary. I know how hard it can be sometimes when you're doing the best you can to walk with God and your life seems to get worse. Remember, we walk with God because we love Him, not because He'll reward us for obeying Him. Still, it sucks when things turn out not-so-good. What can I say? There's no easy answer. Just seek God and let Him minister to you through prayer, reading His Word, or through others.

Edited May 11, 2007 by FighterforJC

[Phil.2:12]

thanks- I think I feel kind of condemed right now. Maybe it's my church, or friends, or maybe it's in my head. Maybe this whole mess will help me walk more humbly. Anyone 50+, is it true that at the end of your life it's common to feel like you will never "get there?"

MK, I am 72, will that do as far as age is concerned? And I can assure you that I have been through many messes that were my fault, even coming to the point that I told God I no longer wanted the Christian life if what I was going through was the best there was to this Christian life. Boy, did He straighten me out in a hurry!

Looking back over my life, I can actually say that I do not feel like I will never "get there". I understand, now more than ever in my life, that the Christian life is a process; a lifelong process. If you feel like you are never "going to get there" you are essentially giving up on Jesus, as I did that September day in 1983. But you are too precious in the sight of God for Him ever to give up on you, So, in answer to your question for 50+ people, no; I cannot look over my life and say that my whole life has been lived in vain. Quite the contrary, it has been an abundantely full life with many an adventure to remind me of the "good old days". And many an adventure lies ahead as I continue to press on in Jesus.

I'm not sure what is condemning you at present. If you had no role to play in the things your husband did that earned him time in the penal system, then what things are condemning you? Forget the well-meaning platitudes that friends and church members will pile on you. Concentrate on who and what you are in Jesus. For only here will you find the peace your soul is crying out for. Friends and church members are important, but they should never replace Jesus, for only He will love you unconditionally, warts and all. In seeking peace, turn to Jesus and I guarantee, on the promises in God's Word, that Jesus will provide the peace no one else is able to do.

[Babylove]

I was wondering something about your 'trials and tribulations' section.

I thought when Jesus came, God would no longer put any human through trials and tribulations, so if we do encounter trials and tribulations, it is never caused by God 'testing' us anymore. Sorry, I'm not as well versed in the bible as I should be (but I'm trying to change that), but that is what I thought.

I'm sorry to hear what you are going through.