Did anyone see the debate on TV last night?

[apothanein kerdos]

I didn't see the debate, but after reading this whole thread, maybe God made sure that the two atheist they were debating were not of the caliber that could make them look bad?

I think He did. As critical as I am of Ray...the atheists REALLY had no business being on TV. I mean, the girl said there is no evidence that Jesus existed, even as a good moral teacher. That's just...ignorant.

Actually, though, I would start sending out resumes. I mean, why not? I'm truly ignorant of the ways of structured academia, but maybe they need someone to jump right in with some common sense. Young and inexperienced does not always equate to a void in qualifications. By now, you may have noticed in your schools that there have been teachers that have taken jobs, yet still studied further (as you have probably done yourself). They may have years to go before someone may consider them "qualified" to teach their classes, but they can teach what they know anyway, and still remain faithful to further study.

The process is complicated. For one, the professors that are teaching have spent years studying these subjects. It doesn't mean they're right (though, at my college, they are ), but it does mean they have knowledge on the subject. A professor should know at least 90% more about the subject than his students, starting at the class. That should be reduced as the class goes on. Point being, you need to have a good grasp on the field you're teaching.

I'm a military guy and if I was to second guess every assignment that came my way, I wouldn't have gotten very far, indeed. There have been many assignments of which I thought that maybe I was not qualified for, or that I should have waited a bit until I took them, but then again, how else was I to learn? Sometimes, you simply have to jump right in and go for it. You'll (and by this, I mean anyone) get the hang of it eventually, and most of this stuff comes from experience in the first place. I kinda admire these two for stepping up and venturing into hostile territory and giving it their best shot. By doing so, perhaps they can learn from their mistakes and drive on in the future with a greater knowledge.

You think some of the assignments they give you now they would give to a recruit fresh out of boot camp?

It's like the show The Unit. These men take on tasks that are seemingly impossible, but they have training that will get them through the assignments. Imagine a new recruit trying to do Delta Force type missions.

The point is, if God has called us to something, it doesn't mean we should take it on full force at that point. Some things, such as being a soldier (which is a calling of God I believe), philosopher, or anything else, take time to learn and get good at.

But, having said what I have, I do recognize your points as true, to a point. I think that it can be dangerous to go out and try to present and defend the Gospel without proper training, education, and a true calling to do so. You could wind up falling flat on your face and even possible turn people away from Christ if you go about it the wrong way. That much is very true.

I know myself, and my understanding of the Gospel. When it comes to things I know little about, I'm thankful that God has given me the wisdom to defer to others who know. In my case, I stick to what I know and try to learn of the things I am weak on. Sometimes, I just have to say......"I don't know".

Knowing this much, I can still defend the Gospel and in no way am I going to shrink from debate about it. I think the Bible does a wonderful job of explaining itself, so I refer to it often while keeping my own words limited.

If this man has been called, and is willing to go on tv and present his side, he deserves our prayers, IMO. He might not have reached his potential as an apologist, but he tried, and he's probably better off for doing so. He learned something which he can take to the next experience, and in doing so, presented the Gospel to an audience that may have never heard it before somewhere out there.

If someone confronts him and tells him that they are worse off for hearing it the way he presented it, then he can apologize and try to set the record straight. There's only so much a person can do, but I admire someone for at least trying.

I see where you are coming from and I can agree with that.

[Vickilynn]

Show me in the Scriptures where there is a "gift" or "office" of Apologetics. Please.

Gift of wisdom/knowledge. That was easy.

Shalom AK,

Nope, that's a BIG stretch. Gift of wisdom and knowledge is NOT apologetics. Sorry.

Again, just your opinion. You are spouting your opinion as fact and that is not Scriptural.

Nope. It's factual. They aren't qualified for public debate.

<sigh> This is silly. You can type it until your fingers bleed, but it doesn't make it fact.

The FACT is, there is NO Scriptural office or specific gift for apologetics and there is NOTHING in the Scriptures that implies it is only for a select few. So, your OPINION is just that. You're entitled to it, but you're wrong by insisting it is anything other than your opinion.

Again, show me in the Scriptures where there is a "gift" or "office" of Apologetics.

Already did above.

Did not.

Please prove that by Scripture.

Already did above.

You did not. You made a far stretch that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Unless you can prove by Scripture that there is a specific office or gift of apologetics, your statement that these 2 men are not qualified is simply your opinion, like it or not.

[apothanein kerdos]

Nope, that's a BIG stretch. Gift of wisdom and knowledge is NOT apologetics. Sorry.

Yeah it is. It applies to apologetics.

<sigh> This is silly. You can type it until your fingers bleed, but it doesn't make it fact.

Nope. It's factual. They aren't qualified.

Unless you can prove by Scripture that there is a specific office or gift of apologetics,

Already did.

[Vickilynn]

Right. Under a broad definition, all Christians are apologists (due to 1 Peter 3:15).

Shalom AK,

EXACTLY what I've been saying. Thank you. I'm glad you finally see that!

t the same time, not all of us are called to go before a televised audience and debate the issues.

That's where your opinion comes in.

You believe in man's ability.

I believe in G-d's power.

You believe that we trust in man and his "abilities."

I trust in G-d's power.

You restrict G-d by saying that only someone "qualified" (in your opinion and your definition) should defend the Gospel.

I believe that NOTHING is impossible for G-d and He will use His willing servants, not the ones with the best abilities.

If He can speak through a donkey, He can use you or I.

I certainly know I am not ready for that and if someone challenged me to it, I'd give them the e-mails of people I know who are qualified.

That's a shame. If G-d told me to do it, I would not say No to my G-d. I would trust that He would give me what I needed to say when I needed to say it. I don't trust in my own abilities, I trust in G-d's power.

[Vickilynn]

Nope, that's a BIG stretch. Gift of wisdom and knowledge is NOT apologetics. Sorry.

Yeah it is. It applies to apologetics.

<sigh> This is silly. You can type it until your fingers bleed, but it doesn't make it fact.

Nope. It's factual. They aren't qualified.

Unless you can prove by Scripture that there is a specific office or gift of apologetics,

Already did.

Shalom AK,

Yeah, that's really mature.

You have not proven your point. Not one bit. You have simply repeated it over and over.

Whatever.

You're entitled to your OPINION.

Addios!

[rtwo]

Okay, but is the "yes I did" "no you didn't" stuff really getting us anywhere?

Look - we all have our opinions on this thing; but I'm at a loss to understand why we're turning what appears to be a pretty good ministry opportunity into another opportunity for infighting among believers.

[apothanein kerdos]

Nope, that's a BIG stretch. Gift of wisdom and knowledge is NOT apologetics. Sorry.

Yeah it is. It applies to apologetics.

<sigh> This is silly. You can type it until your fingers bleed, but it doesn't make it fact.

Nope. It's factual. They aren't qualified.

Unless you can prove by Scripture that there is a specific office or gift of apologetics,

Already did.

Shalom AK,

Yeah, that's really mature.

You have not proven your point. Not one bit. You have simply repeated it over and over.

Whatever.

You're entitled to your OPINION.

Addios!

Nope, it's fact.

[Vickilynn]

Okay, but is the "yes I did" "no you didn't" stuff really getting us anywhere?

Shalom rtwo,

Just what I said above. It's juvenile and silly.

And it's out of place in any mature and sincere discussion.

Look - we all have our opinions on this thing; but I'm at a loss to understand why we're turning what appears to be a pretty good ministry opportunity into another opportunity for infighting among believers.

Right Toe!

Those men were out there ministering for the L-rd! We should all take up their example and allow the Holy Spirit to speak through us.

[Vickilynn]

Presenting the gospel and defending the gospel are two different things.

Shalom,

Please prove that by Scripture.

[apothanein kerdos]

Presenting the gospel and defending the gospel are two different things.

Shalom,

Please prove that by Scripture.

1 Peter 3:15 vs. the Great Commission.