Did anyone see the debate on TV last night?

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

This was missed somehow <g> and it shows the Scriptural truth that we do not need our abilities to speak for G-d.

Exodus 4

10 But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue."

11 Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD? 12Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak."

The WHOLE BIBLE is our teacher.

2 Timothy 3

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

G-d used Moses as well, who was NOT an idiot, but declared he no speaking skills. (Exodus 4:10)

Moses was told to trust G-d and He would give Him what he needed to speak. (v 11-12)

Moses did not trust and asked for a mouthpiece. (v 13)

This made G-d angry, for Moses would not trust in anything but HIS OWN INABILITIES! He would not step out in faith and trust G-d to provide, as G-d said He would! (v 14)

G-d was telling Moses to trust in G-d's power to give him the words and the skill, not himself! G-d was angry because Moses was looking at his OWN inability, not G-d's power and Moses refused to look past his own lack of skill. But that wasn't what G-d wanted. He didn't need someone with speaking abilities or He wouldn't have chosen Moses.

Even though Aaron had the ABILITY, that wasn't enough, he still needed G-d to provide the words via Moses. (v 15)

G-d still used Moses, in his inabilities, his insecurities and his lack of trust.

Moses spoke by the power of G-d.

Moses was given power from G-d.

You can never prove (BY THE SCRIPTURES) that someone is not "qualified" by G-d's standards to speak for Him when G-d's abilities are all we need, not our own. G-d tells us to trust HIM and HE will do the work in us for HIS glory, not our own.

The bottom line is, WHOM do we trust - man or G-d?

I'll choose G-d.

Exodus 4

10 But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue."

11 Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD? 12Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak."

13But he said, "Oh, my Lord, please send someone else."

14Then the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses and he said, "Is there not Aaron, your brother, the Levite? I know that he can speak well. Behold, he is coming out to meet you, and when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart.

15You shall speak to him and put the words in his mouth, and I will be with your mouth and with his mouth and will teach you both what to do. 16He shall speak for you to the people, and he shall be your mouth, and you shall be as God to him. 17And take in your hand this staff, with which you shall do the signs."

[Floatingaxe]

I never did find out who won. So who won?

Shalom Artsylady,

Actually, G-d won.

In debates the "winner" is only by man's subjective opinion.

However, in this instance, G-d was lifted up, His Word was proclaimed and we don't know how many seeds were planted in the hearts of those watching! We will only know in Heaven.

Thank G-d there are courageous men such as these who are willing to trust G-d rather than their own abilities. G-d will use them more than those who rely on their own strengths.

Amen! Scripture is chock full of demonstrations of God using weak, even ill-prepared people! All so God's power will be clearly and unmistakeably seen.

1 Corinthians 1:27...

Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.

[Vickilynn]

Amen! Scripture is chock full of demonstrations of God using weak, even ill-prepared people! All so God's power will be clearly and unmistakeably seen.

1 Corinthians 1:27...

Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.

Shalom FA,

Amen! The Scriptures say it so plainly! There cannot be any argument. People either trust in their own wisdom or G-d's.

I'll choose G-d's any day!

[apothanein kerdos]

If we do not need our abilities, then where do they come from?

If God does not need to use our abilities, why did He give them to us?

[Vickilynn]

If we do not need our abilities, then where do they come from?

If God does not need to use our abilities, why did He give them to us?

Shalom AK,

The question is, which is more important, our abilities or G-d's?

#1. Did anyone say any place that we do not need our abilities? No.

#2. G-d gave us abilities for His glory. He will use them (and us) to His glory.

However, this has NOTHING to do with your assertion that ONLY ability is the qualification to speak for G-d. That simply is not borne out by the Scriptures and in fact, it is refuted by the Scriptures.

The fact is, G-d will use the willing, WHETHER they have the ability to speak His Word. According to the Scriptures G-d will give us the words to say when we need to say them.

[Steven01]

*Calls dateline to throw them an idea of having Christians debate on who should be an apologist, evangelist, and preacher.* Once again, pray for God to open up the hearts of those lost.

Edited May 11, 2007 by SuperCell

[apothanein kerdos]

However, this has NOTHING to do with your assertion that ONLY ability is the qualification to speak for G-d. That simply is not borne out by the Scriptures and in fact, it is refuted by the Scriptures.

Uh...yeah...cause Paul never equated us to a Body fulfilling our specific roles or anything.

[firehill]

However, this has NOTHING to do with your assertion that ONLY ability is the qualification to speak for G-d. That simply is not borne out by the Scriptures and in fact, it is refuted by the Scriptures.

Uh...yeah...cause Paul never equated us to a Body fulfilling our specific roles or anything.

I agree with VickyLynn on her point above. She's right. The overarching principle is God's will. God doesn't need man's view of qualified people for this or that. The problem with your equation of what Paul wrote about concerning the function of the body is that again God decides who does what. Being Christ's body is not the same thing at all as being a human body that is limited by the natural world or flesh.

[apothanein kerdos]

However, this has NOTHING to do with your assertion that ONLY ability is the qualification to speak for G-d. That simply is not borne out by the Scriptures and in fact, it is refuted by the Scriptures.

Uh...yeah...cause Paul never equated us to a Body fulfilling our specific roles or anything.

I agree with VickyLynn on her point above. She's right. The overarching principle is God's will. God doesn't need man's view of qualified people for this or that. The problem with your equation of what Paul wrote about concerning the function of the body is that again God decides who does what. Being Christ's body is not the same thing at all as being a human body that is limited by the natural world or flesh.

It doesn't change the fact we each have a specific purpose. Kirk and Ray's purpose is not apologetics. Therefore, they should not have partaken in an apologetic enterprise on the debate.

[Vickilynn]

However, this has NOTHING to do with your assertion that ONLY ability is the qualification to speak for G-d. That simply is not borne out by the Scriptures and in fact, it is refuted by the Scriptures.

Uh...yeah...cause Paul never equated us to a Body fulfilling our specific roles or anything.

Shalom AK,

tsk.tsk.

Sarcastic barbs are never a mature substitute for gracious discussion supported by the Scriptures.

Your comment is a Straw Man argument. The Body of Messiah (Born-again Believers) is called to defend the Gospel and we are to trust that G-d will enable us to do so when called upon.

Again, you have not shown that there is any specific role, office or gift that is only for apologists. There is no Biblically-ordained specific role for apologetics. ALL Christians are called to defend the Gospel. Not by our abilities, but by G-d's. It is that simple!

The Bible clearly says that we are to NOT trust in our wisdom or abilities, but to trust in G-d's.

I can't imagine anyone finding argument with that basic truth that we trust G-d not ourselves, but, whatever floats your boat! If you want to trust in man's wisdom, that is your choice. However, the Bible tells us not to. We are to trust G-d instead.