4Pillars Posted May 22, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2007 Here's my take .... Genesis 1:1 is actually a preface - The Story of the Beginning of Creation. Genesis 1:2 narrate us the condition of the deep BEFORE the actual making of the physical heaven and earth in the beginning. "In the beginning God Created the heaven and the Earth. v2 And the Earth was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Genesis 1:3 document us the bringing forth of the Light into this physical world BEFORE anything is made -- to turn the condition of the deep (empty) from darkness (death) to light (life). The brightness of the glory of the Son provided that Light in the beginning (ALPHA) ref. Gen. 1:3 as he will also provide the Light in the end (OMEGA) ref. Rev. 21:23. Genesis 1:4 God divided the Light from the darkness before the start of any creation - the first work of old. Genesis 1:5 Light Day and Night - the 1st. Day. Based on the above analogy and reconciliation of Scriptures, seemingly, the heaven and earth were still null & void (non-existence) at this time (Gen.1:1-5) do you agree? In fact, accordingly, the actual formation or making of the first heaven only took place on the 2nd. day and our earth was made on the 3rd day - not Genesis 1:1 am I correct? Your thought please..... God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted May 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Here's my take .... Genesis 1:1 is actually a preface - The Story of the Beginning of Creation. Genesis 1:2 narrate us the condition of the deep BEFORE the actual making of the physical heaven and earth in the beginning. "In the beginning God Created the heaven and the Earth. v2 And the Earth was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Genesis 1:3 document us the bringing forth of the Light into this physical world BEFORE anything is made -- to turn the condition of the deep (empty) from darkness (death) to light (life). The brightness of the glory of the Son provided that Light in the beginning (ALPHA) ref. Gen. 1:3 as he will also provide the Light in the end (OMEGA) ref. Rev. 21:23. Genesis 1:4 God divided the Light from the darkness before the start of any creation - the first work of old. Genesis 1:5 Light Day and Night - the 1st. Day. Based on the above analogy and reconciliation of Scriptures, seemingly, the heaven and earth were still null & void (non-existence) at this time (Gen.1:1-5) do you agree? In fact, accordingly, the actual formation or making of the first heaven only took place on the 2nd. day and our earth was made on the 3rd day - not Genesis 1:1 am I correct? Your thought please..... God Bless Interesting translation. What is it. Thus far I would agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Pillars Posted May 22, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) Here's my take .... Genesis 1:1 is actually a preface - The Story of the Beginning of Creation. Genesis 1:2 narrate us the condition of the deep BEFORE the actual making of the physical heaven and earth in the beginning. "In the beginning God Created the heaven and the Earth. v2 And the Earth was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Genesis 1:3 document us the bringing forth of the Light into this physical world BEFORE anything is made -- to turn the condition of the deep (empty) from darkness (death) to light (life). The brightness of the glory of the Son provided that Light in the beginning (ALPHA) ref. Gen. 1:3 as he will also provide the Light in the end (OMEGA) ref. Rev. 21:23. Genesis 1:4 God divided the Light from the darkness before the start of any creation - the first work of old. Genesis 1:5 Light Day and Night - the 1st. Day. Based on the above analogy and reconciliation of Scriptures, seemingly, the heaven and earth were still null & void (non-existence) at this time (Gen.1:1-5) do you agree? In fact, accordingly, the actual formation or making of the first heaven only took place on the 2nd. day and our earth was made on the 3rd day - not Genesis 1:1 am I correct? Your thought please..... God Bless Interesting translation. What is it. Thus far I would agree with you. Old English King James Version - would you like to learn more about it? God Bless Edited May 22, 2007 by 4Pillars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Pillars Posted May 22, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 The narrative of Gen. 1:1-2 is speaking of the period BEFORE the 1st Day. Gen. 1:6-8 shows that the first Firmament or Heaven, as God calls it in Gen. 1:8 was formed on the 2nd Day. Jesus speaks of this time, in the Garden of Gethsemane: And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the Glory which I had with Thee BEFORE the world was." John 17:5 If one believes that In the beginning God created the Heavens (Plural) BEFORE the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error. If one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day, then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that Jesus came into the World Before the 1st Heaven was formed. Any thought? God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtwo Posted May 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1978 Share Posted May 22, 2007 The narrative of Gen. 1:1-2 is speaking of the period BEFORE the 1st Day. Gen. 1:6-8 shows that the first Firmament or Heaven, as God calls it in Gen. 1:8 was formed on the 2nd Day. Jesus speaks of this time, in the Garden of Gethsemane: And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the Glory which I had with Thee BEFORE the world was." John 17:5 If one believes that In the beginning God created the Heavens (Plural) BEFORE the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error. If one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day, then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that Jesus came into the World Before the 1st Heaven was formed. Any thought? God Bless The heavens referred to in Genesis are not the dwelling place of God, nor of the angels, but the physical heavens (space and sky). God does not reside in space, but in a dimension (if you will) apart from the physical, with which we are familiar. To the rest: it is clear to me, based upon the language, form and metre used that Gen 1 (and possibly the first part of Gen 2) is poetry. Genesis 2 follows with the narrative on which Gen 1 was based (the event, more than the narrative itself). Now, Gen 1 may be a preface, as has been suggested; however, Gen 1:2 says the "earth was formless" meaning, if you are to give credibility to the words used, that it did, in fact, exist, though it was not yet formed. Some scholaers refer to Gen 1:1-1:2 as the pre-adamite earth, and using today's convention that a day is not a day have actually suggested some form of being existed during this time. This particular belief (in a pre-adamite resident) has been largley discredited, but it's an interesting theory. Over all, though, Pillars, I think your reading of the creation is fairly accurate (except, as I said, when it comes to heaven... which really is more of a misunderstanding of the word than a theological mistake, IMO). The Bible is pretty clear about God creating light before continuing work on the earth itself. However, if Gen 1 is to be taken literally, are we to understand that light happened -before- God created the sun (Gen 1:14-19)? This brings us back to the poetry of Gen 1. My reading of the differences in Gen 1 and 2 (and the apparant scientific incongrueties) suggests that Gen 2 is, in fact, the truer narrative of creation, while Gen 1 is a hymn written in the form of "creation mythology." As such, Gen 1 should not be discredited, but rather read as was intended, not as a true accounting of method, but as a poem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Pillars Posted May 22, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 Dear rtwo, The 1st Firmament or Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 It was formed in the midst or middle of the Water, and Water was above and below it. IOW, the 1st Heaven, was surrounded by water. It was later destroyed, totally and completely, by that same Water, when the "windows of heaven were opened. Gen. 7:11 Our Heaven or Universe was made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-5 The Big Bang happened on the 3rd Day, the same Day Jesus made our Heaven or Kosmos, and also the 3rd Heaven. ll Corinthians 12:2 tells us of the Apostle Paul being taken to the 3rd Heaven. The first Heaven was destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:5-7 The present second Heaven will be Burned. ll Peter 3:7 The third Heaven is where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us. It is beyond our World. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Pillars Posted May 22, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 There are several reasons why I believe that the word used in Gen. 1:1 is Heaven and not Heavens (plural) as it relate to the Story of the Beginning of Genesis. In the context of the text, I see the narrative as saying: In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation. This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere. JMHO God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtwo Posted May 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1978 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Dear rtwo, The 1st Firmament or Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 It was formed in the midst or middle of the Water, and Water was above and below it. IOW, the 1st Heaven, was surrounded by water. It was later destroyed, totally and completely, by that same Water, when the "windows of heaven were opened. Gen. 7:11 Our Heaven or Universe was made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-5 The Big Bang happened on the 3rd Day, the same Day Jesus made our Heaven or Kosmos, and also the 3rd Heaven. ll Corinthians 12:2 tells us of the Apostle Paul being taken to the 3rd Heaven. The first Heaven was destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:5-7 The present second Heaven will be Burned. ll Peter 3:7 The third Heaven is where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us. It is beyond our World. God Bless I disagree. in order for there to be a sky, and water, this suggests that there was, in fact, a world (formless though it was). In other words, the globe itself (though perhaps not yet globe-shaped... but who knows) already existed, by Gen. 1:2. This first heaven, the expanse between water and space, is still here, and like Genesis, we call it "sky". This is not and was not destroyed. Second heaven, we may agree, is the universe. I see no time table for the creation of the third heaven, nor do I read in the third day account where the Universe itself was created. However, as God is eternal (and as Christ is eternal), we may assume that He has no need for a home, and if a "third heaven" was created, it was for our benefit and not His. Again, we can agree that such a place is beyond our world, and is where Jesus went to prepare a place. I would again point out, however, that ultimately, Gen. 1 is poetry and can clearly not be taken as an established time line (once again, I'd point out that in the universe, light is attached to the sun ... without the sun - formed on day 4, according to the account - there would be no light). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Pillars Posted May 22, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 I would again point out, however, that ultimately, Gen. 1 is poetry and can clearly not be taken as an established time line (once again, I'd point out that in the universe, light is attached to the sun ... without the sun - formed on day 4, according to the account - there would be no light). Dear rtwo, Jesus is God and was with His Father before the Beginning of the Physical World. When God said, Let there be Light (Gen. 1:3), Jesus came forth from the invisible Spirit of Love into the Physical World and became the Only God ever Physically formed or that ever will be Physically formed. He was Not Created, since He was already God in the beginning. Jesus was the True Light duriing during the beginning of the Creation process (John 1:9), just as He will be the Light of Heaven in the end, which has No need for the Sun nor Moon to shine in it (Rev. 21:1-3). Without Jesus was Not anything made which was made, because Everything Physical was made by the Physical Hands of the Only God, the Only Image, the Only Begotten, of the Invisible Spirit of God. When we get to Heaven, we will truly understand that Jesus is the One God, for In Him dwelleth ALL of the fulness of the Godhead, Bodily (physically). Now, concerning the Creation, Genesis chapter 1 is an Outline of ALL of the events leading to the Creation of the Perfect Heaven, literally speaking. Most of the rest of the Bible refers to the present 6th Day, but ALL of the Bible refers to the events of God's 6 Creative Days. That's why we are taken back to the 3rd Day at Gen 2:4. The narrative is adding details to the events listed in Gen 1. Both accounts agree totally and in detail. What is amazing is that God wrote our History more than 3,000 years ago, and the events at the end of the 6th Day are still Future. IOW, God told the complete story of the Creation in Genesis 1 and beginning at Gen 2:4, we begin to learn the details of the events of Genesis 1. The Bible was written for the past, present, and future. It is relevant for today, and tomorrow. Written by the Supreme Intelligence, it's just too hard for others and unbelievers to comprehend. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Pillars Posted May 22, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) How could the earth be formless, (as in not having shape)... but the word says this. Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. How is this reconciled Dear ruck1b, Here's how you reconcile the Story of the Beginning BEFORE God created the heaven and the earth, ref. (Genesis 1:1) based strickly on the Scripture. Note: Insertions are mine for clarity of thoughts. In the beginning was the Word (Light), and the Word was with God (Father), and the Word was God (Son). John 1:1 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Proverbs 8:22 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Proverbs 8:23 And God said, LET THERE BE LIGHT: and there was light. Genesis 1:3 Note: The first WORD spoken by God as recorded in the Scripture. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Proverbs 8:24 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:4 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Proverbs 8:25 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5 Based on the above three (3) witnesses (Scriptures), notice the texts are documenting us How and When the Edited May 22, 2007 by 4Pillars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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