methinkshe Posted May 23, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 679 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2007 I am reminded by the thread that suggests we debate "head of" or "head over" of the Pharisees who were quite happy to tithe their herbs, almost down to the last seed, but practiced Korban so they could duck their duties to elderly parents by proclaiming their entire wealth as a gift to God and therefore not available to support aged parents, as the Law required, and in return for their connivance in this deceit, the priests took a cut. Jesus said of the law against adultery that any man who looks at another woman lustfully has committed adultery, never mind one who has engaged in the physical act. This is the spirit of the law - the heart motive. And it is that which as humans beings we can never hope, in our own strength, to overcome. Jesus was pointing out that you not only have to refrain from the physical act of adultery, you also must refrain from even a momentary desire for a woman other than your wife. Impossible for fallen man with his inherited from Adam sinful nature - which is what Jesus was pointing out. The Law CANNOT save, it can only condemn. Works cannot save, they are filthy rags. Only the precious blood of Jesus given freely (by grace) to pay the judicial penalty for sin can save, because then we can count on sins past present and future forgiven and His imputed righteousness, not our insufficient works, to make us acceptable to the Father. Therefore, let us not be too bothered about a preposition here and a preposition there, i.e. the letter of the Law that is death, but rather seek to understand the spirit of the Word that gives life. In Jesus, Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted May 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2007 Does this 'observation' of yours mean that the scriptural verses that are being covered thus far in the 'head of' or 'head over' thread letter for letter, word for word are speaking for themselves loud and clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted May 24, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2007 Great OP post methinkshe, Reminds me of this very passage of scripture found in 2 Corinthians 3:2-6--"Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: (3) Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. (4) And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: (5) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; (6) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methinkshe Posted May 24, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 679 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 24, 2007 Does this 'observation' of yours mean that the scriptural verses that are being covered thus far in the 'head of' or 'head over' thread letter for letter, word for word are speaking for themselves loud and clear? No, not really, because what I noticed was an absence of the spirit of the Word and a preoccupation with the letter. To use a metaphor from weaving, I see the spirit of the Word as golden warp threads running unbroken through the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and through them are woven the weft threads, the narrative or, if you like, the letter of the Word. As in a piece of woven cloth, one can concentrate on the very visible colours and patterns produced by the weft in any given area, and fail to recognise the continuity and support provided by the almost hidden-from-view warp threads. That's probably a lousy metaphor - sorry! I was thinking about posting to the "head of" or "head over" thread and began by considering whether, for instance, we speak of a head of a school, or a head over a school, and concluded that the difference was so trivial as to barely deserve comment. And that made me wonder whether we hadn't got slightly off track by examining such trivialities and weren't in danger of missing the spirit of the Word by concentrating on the letter of the Word, much as the Pharisees did. Which set me to thinking how we can discern the spirit of the Word, which in turn reminded me of Jesus teaching on adultery and how none of us is able to keep the letter of the Law anyway, so why are we bothering to argue about it? In Christ we are set free from the law (the letter) to live in the Spirit (btw thanks for referencing the verse I had in mind, Openly Curious. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.). Anyway, my purpose in beginning the thread, which I didn't make very clear and for which I apologise, was to open a debate about how we can discern, and then live in, the spirit of the Word that travels unbroken throughout the whole Bible. I expect that to more erudite people than I, deliberating over the translation of a single word from the original language, is a worthwhile pursuit, and I do not mean to condemn such detailed analysis. But I suspect that there may be others like me who are not familiar with the original languages of the Bible and for whom such an exercise is less worthy - i.e. more likely to be about reinforcing preconceptions than genuinely seeking the truth. Therefore, I felt that I would be better employed seeking the spirit of the Word than arguing about the letter - which is why I refrained from posting to the head of/head over thread, and instead opened this thread to discuss how we can best discern the spirit of the Word. My sincere apologies for not making myself clear in my OP. In Jesus, Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LAW Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 The Lord does help us out every day. I've been thinking a lot about the subject of freedom in the Lord. Sometimes we limit ourselves and our ministry because we won't step out in freedom. We let fear keep us from acting and living as we should. I know that fear of the Lord is healthy (just as a young child's caution about what his/her parents think about his/her actions). But the Lord tells us that we are His adoped children, that we are to call Him "Abba," that we are to walk in freedom from sin to take the gospel to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methinkshe Posted May 25, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 679 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 The Lord does help us out every day. I've been thinking a lot about the subject of freedom in the Lord. Sometimes we limit ourselves and our ministry because we won't step out in freedom. We let fear keep us from acting and living as we should. I know that fear of the Lord is healthy (just as a young child's caution about what his/her parents think about his/her actions). But the Lord tells us that we are His adoped children, that we are to call Him "Abba," that we are to walk in freedom from sin to take the gospel to the world. Indeed, yes. The whole purpose of our Christian faith is that God should "..........reveal His Son in me that I might preach Him....." (Galations 1:16) I find it tremendously liberating that my inherited-from-Adam sin nature is so unreformable that it is crucified with Christ and to be counted as dead, and that it is Christ IN me who is my hope of glory. (Col 1:27). Where I often come unstuck, though, is the "counting as dead" bit - all too often my old nature rears its ugly head. I just thank Jesus that "He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Phil 1:6) In Jesus, Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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