A verse in Revelations

[exrockstar]

Revelation 3:15 (King James Version)

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

i think there is a little more depth than "he wishes us to be either living for Him or living in sin."

verse 17 Christ is pointing out faults that aims at them personally.

the thing to ask is "do the works tie into the hot and cold?"

to live in or out of sin is not a work.

However, the history presentend about Laodecia in this thread is on point.

but everyone has their views so im just adding mine.

[Guest man]

Hot or cold......you are either doing the will of God or you're not.

Being lukewarm is taking the Word of God for granted. Thinking that just because you believe, you are automatically granted permission to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:21-23 is a good example of what will happen to those who are lukewarm.

Being lukewarm is believing that your works will get you into heaven.

In our modern Christianeze we associate "hot" and "cold" with spiritual temperature, but that is not something the ancient Chrisdtians would have done. They did not think in those terms. We tend to read our modern culture and idomatic references into the text, I think.

Jesus uses very poignant imagery that hits the Laodecians between the eyes. Laodecia was a very affluent city. They were a leading city in the textile industry and were known for creating expensive, high end clothing. In addition, they had a very famous medical center and produced a highly sought after oily eye-salve. Jesus hits on all three things, their affluence, their fine clothes and their eye medicine, when he says in part, that they are poor, naked and blind, among other things.

Those things contributed to their lukewarmness.

Matthew 23:23

[Guest]

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

Revelation 1:1

There is no 'Book of Revelations anywhere in the Bible. I searched every different Bible version I own, and cannot find such a book.

Sorry; just one of my (many) crotchets, which I grow to cherish more and more in my superannuation!

Want To Borrow My Pen?

[apothanein kerdos]

Revelations 3:15,16 talks about being lukewarm. I know He is talking to the church, but is He talking to us as well?

If we are lukewarm, He will spit us out of His mouth. What does this mean?

In life, we struggle every day to remain from sinning, we mess up, and there is forgiveness. I don't go to church, but I am a Christian, struggling, yes, but I know Jesus is my savior.

Does this verse mean we can have our salvation taken away?

Another verse, Revelations 3:19 says

"I correct and punish those whom I love. So be eager to do right, and change your hearts and lives."

If He loves us, He is going to punish us? I thought there was no judgments from God when you are a Christian. I totally respect these verses, but would like someone to explain them to me better, so I don't walk around thinking I am going to go to hell cuz I may be lukewarm.

Thank You,

Rachel

Hi Rachel,

Being lukewarm to the church of Laodecia was a very strong statement to that church. Laodedica did not have a natural water source they had to have water literally "piped" in from nearby Colosse as well as another city. The problem was that by the time water reached Laodecia, it was lukewarm and had to be boiled before it could be used for human consumption such as drinking or cooking. Lukewarm water is the breeding ground for bacteria and deadly parasites. Most parasites lay their eggs in that kind of environment.

Too often "hot" and "cold" are misinterpreted by those reading this text as referring to Christians who are either turned on, or turned off of Christ. The "hot" Christian is serving God, and "cold" Christian is not living for God or serving God at all. That is not what Jesus is saying here. Jesus was drawing from the analogy of water, not merely temperature. And according to Jesus, He would prefer that we were either hot or cold.

Jesus is not saying, as is often misinterpreted from this passage, that he wishes us to be either living for Him or living in sin. Too often, preachers use this verse/passage to say that Jesus would rather you be sold out to God or sold out to the devil. That makes no sense, because Jesus would never say that being sold out to the devil is better than being lukewarm, but that is how many take this.

As I said, Jesus is talking about water. Hot water and cold water are beneficial. Hot water has healing/medicinal properties, and cold water is refreshing and quenches thirst. When Jesus said that lukewarm makes him sick, the "lukewarm" analogy would have reminded them of the way that kind of water they had piped in would make them sick. Jesus is saying I wish you were like hot or cold water. Both of those types of water are useful and beneficial. Lukewarm water, where the Laodecians were concerned was not only not useful but actually sickening.

Jesus was, in effect, comparing the church at Laodeciea with the parasites and deadly bacteria in the lukewarm water. That was the object He had in view.

[Guest brother otis]

Revelations 3:15,16 talks about being lukewarm. I know He is talking to the church, but is He talking to us as well?

If we are lukewarm, He will spit us out of His mouth. What does this mean?

In life, we struggle every day to remain from sinning, we mess up, and there is forgiveness. I don't go to church, but I am a Christian, struggling, yes, but I know Jesus is my savior.

Does this verse mean we can have our salvation taken away?

Another verse, Revelations 3:19 says

"I correct and punish those whom I love. So be eager to do right, and change your hearts and lives."

If He loves us, He is going to punish us? I thought there was no judgments from God when you are a Christian. I totally respect these verses, but would like someone to explain them to me better, so I don't walk around thinking I am going to go to hell cuz I may be lukewarm.

Thank You,

Rachel

Rachel,

God does love us and what he is saying is, that whenever we are doing something wrong,he will correct us.

not to be mean, but because he loves us. I am a dad of three girls and a baby boy. When my children do wrong i have to give them correction, cause if i dont then im not a good parent. If God didnt punish his children when they did wrong, then we wouldnt learn from our mistakes.

For your other question about being luke warm, God doesnt like the indecisiveness in people. Either your for God or your against him, dont be all about God one minute and not the next. Talk about him to everyone, but remember that he gave us free-will. Dont try to force people to believe what you believe, its there choice. Just be a light in Christ and you will bring light to those who are in the dark.

I hope this answered some of your questions, i love to talk about,learn about,and teach about GOD. THANK YOU,

BROTHER OTIS

[Guest]

The scribes and Pharisees were lukewarm believers. They practiced little more then lip service. They did as little as possible while expecting everyone else to toe the line.

The hot and cold water thing is a good analogy....one that can be seen in the spiritual realm.

I thought they were hot stuff.

Real Biblical Legal Beagles!

I do not mean to insult these Old Time Lawyers of Holy Script but I thought I saw one of their latter-day brethren on TV the other night!

He was a'whooping and a'hollering and a'sweating as he worked his hardest to extorted houses from widows.

Not A Happy Forecast

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Matthew 23:14

I think Brother Shiloh357 probably nailed it with The City of Laodicea

Both of its water sources were poor.

She had local natural hot springs.

She had piped-in tepid waters through limestone pipes.

Let us runneth a bit!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laodicean_Church

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Revelation 3:15-16

These teachings {Jesus uses very poignant imagery that hits the Laodecians between the eyes. Laodecia was a very affluent city. They were a leading city in the textile industry and were known for creating expensive, high end clothing. In addition, they had a very famous medical center and produced a highly sought after oily eye-salve. Jesus hits on all three things, their affluence, their fine clothes and their eye medicine, when he says in part, that they are poor, naked and blind, among other things.} are as current to my life and to The USA today as they were to Laodicea.

Wonder How He Knew - Oh Yeah - He's God

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Revelation 3:17-18

Cool study!

Keep On Keeping On!

Watch your sssss's

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Lovessss, Joessssssssss

[OopsMartin]

Hi Rachel,

Being lukewarm to the church of Laodecia was a very strong statement to that church. Laodedica did not have a natural water source they had to have water literally "piped" in from nearby Colosse as well as another city. The problem was that by the time water reached Laodecia, it was lukewarm and had to be boiled before it could be used for human consumption such as drinking or cooking. Lukewarm water is the breeding ground for bacteria and deadly parasites. Most parasites lay their eggs in that kind of environment.

Too often "hot" and "cold" are misinterpreted by those reading this text as referring to Christians who are either turned on, or turned off of Christ. The "hot" Christian is serving God, and "cold" Christian is not living for God or serving God at all. That is not what Jesus is saying here. Jesus was drawing from the analogy of water, not merely temperature. And according to Jesus, He would prefer that we were either hot or cold.

Jesus is not saying, as is often misinterpreted from this passage, that he wishes us to be either living for Him or living in sin. Too often, preachers use this verse/passage to say that Jesus would rather you be sold out to God or sold out to the devil. That makes no sense, because Jesus would never say that being sold out to the devil is better than being lukewarm, but that is how many take this.

As I said, Jesus is talking about water. Hot water and cold water are beneficial. Hot water has healing/medicinal properties, and cold water is refreshing and quenches thirst. When Jesus said that lukewarm makes him sick, the "lukewarm" analogy would have reminded them of the way that kind of water they had piped in would make them sick. Jesus is saying I wish you were like hot or cold water. Both of those types of water are useful and beneficial. Lukewarm water, where the Laodecians were concerned was not only not useful but actually sickening.

Jesus was, in effect, comparing the church at Laodeciea with the parasites and deadly bacteria in the lukewarm water. That was the object He had in view.

Excellent research Shiloh. There is a Bible teacher that has some DVD's about this area. It's really enlightening to actually see the real thing that Jesus was referring to, that the people themselves would have been looking at. Historical enlightenment is sometimes really necessary in order to properly understand both the intent of the author and how the early church understood the words. Then we can make proper spiritual application.

Good work!

[apothanein kerdos]

Here is a post I just made concerning a proper interpretation of scripture.

[OopsMartin]

Here is a post I just made concerning a proper interpretation of scripture.

Excellent job. AK

Now if we could all apply similar care and attention to how we read (hear) other peoples words as well.

[exrockstar]

Here is a post I just made concerning a proper interpretation of scripture.

good article.

i read some interpretations here. i agree plus disagree with in some areas.

the history is there. nevertheless, i respect it all.

even though I have not tackled the letters in full I can say that being "hot or cold" are definately two different areas of the spectrum.

in greek "hot and cold" are opposite temperatures but the same element.

the problem that I have is:

even though it is confirmed that there was a spring nearby that supplied water through pipes it is not as though the water

arrived by a desired choice. there was no hot faucet or cold faucet. it either arrived cold, warm, or hot determined by the weather.

so im leaving that alone for now.

However interesting enough the rest of the letter I (we) did manage to get a good insight of what was happening.

v17 is definately the attitude of an arrogant church that has prospered financially. When Christ says that they say "I am rich..." is talk of a person that is egocentric. Thus bringing in sprirtual "blindness" (also tieing the production of eye salve they supplied).

Because this is a Church that is criticized for the things that they do (prosperity defined by $ and self) this is a little easy to sort out the rest of the pieces.

"knowest that thou art naked:"

Exodus 20:20-28

24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.

26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

Christ is addressing this church that has lost focus with spiritual prosperity and have exchanged it to material prosperity.

The Exodus verses I just placed shows that God wanted an altar built using the beautiness of the earth that He created.

If a man layed a tool upon it would cause the man to feel as though the altar was designed to his (man's) pleasing. This

outshined what God has created which was the dirt, rocks, etc. Man tends to do that...we think we know what is better for God or the church.

we see that in some aspects of our beliefs, attitude and in these threads.

Some of us can piece the "spiritual clothing" through scripture so i think i'll stop there.

theres more to this but i thought i'd mention a little insight in where me and my collegues have decided to take our journey in these letters. ... 3xR0c|<stAr