practically naked - what would you do?

[chicagoburbite]

Here is what HrJr said above:

I think a lot of the problem lies in the fact that Christians can not control their own lusts, so they take offense at these trivial things. I do not really care how another woman dresses; it will not make me lust for her. I really do not see how such minor things could offend mature Christians.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

Here is what HrJr said above:

I think a lot of the problem lies in the fact that Christians can not control their own lusts, so they take offense at these trivial things. I do not really care how another woman dresses; it will not make me lust for her. I really do not see how such minor things could offend mature Christians.

Keep in mind though maybe it isn't a problem for him.....I am also lucky to where I can see a half naked man and be okay with it. I don't only blame the school on it though (look at the typical cheerleading uniform), the parents as as much to blame as well for allowing their daughters to dress that way!

[chicagoburbite]

Keep in mind though maybe it isn't a problem for him.....I am also lucky to where I can see a half naked man and be okay with it. I don't only blame the school on it though (look at the typical cheerleading uniform), the parents as as much to blame as well for allowing their daughters to dress that way!

That doesn't surprise me that you don't have lust issues with half naked men. However, God did not wire women to be visually stimulated near as much (if at all) as men are. Please read the article I left for HrJr for more information on that. It's a gooood article, and very necessary for all teen girls AND their parents to read it.

I also agree the failure is on the parent's part... and secondly the school's.

[hr.jr.]

>>I think a lot of the problem lies in the fact that Christians can not control their own lusts, so they take offense at these trivial things. <<

Actually, it takes a very strong and commited Christian to live God's way and not the way of the world. (BTW, I wasn't saying I was lusting after these girls. )

>> I do not really care how another woman dresses; it will not make me lust for her.<<

That is quite amazing that you can do that! You are the first male I've heard of that doesn't have to keep himself in check regarding the whole area of sexual lust. My pastor (in a church with 4000+ members) has given sermons on the necessity of modest dress siting the fact that it is very hard for men (who are visually wired by God) to not fall into the temptation of lust and/or fanaticize.

>>I really do not see how such minor things could offend mature Christians. <<

Quiet the opposite, it's the mature Christians who are willing to go against what the "world" says is ok.

Here is a very interesting article. I cut and pasted a few sections of for you:

Some time ago, a friend showed me a letter that a young man wrote to the editor of her Christian college newspaper:

The other day I was going to the business office to take care of some financial matters and I could not believe some of the things I was seeing. The landscaping around campus looked exceptionally great. There were new dorms, new faces and unfortunately, scantily clad females were everywhere as well. This is . . . particularly hard for males because they are stimulated by sight. Now guys, we are not off the hook just because females are dressed inappropriately. We are called in 2 Timothy 2:22 to

[hr.jr.]

I noticed you said you "did not lust for the young girls." That was quite obvious. Could maybe you worry that your husband might? Of course! I don't want to put my husband into situations that might cause him to stumble. He wouldn't want me to be around or have to be placed in situations that might cause me to sin. That's just protecting your spouse from the "fire".

CARWASH. CARWASH means WATER. Around water, beach type dress is appropriate. Why is a carwash any different?

If you read what I wrote before this.. I am suggesting there be NO car wash. There are many other ways to raise money! If there was NO other way to make money, then do what our church youth group did years ago. Everyone wore jean shorts, and tshirts over their bathing suits.

Let's say you and your wife have a baby daughter sometime in the future.. and when that baby girl is 15, her pep club decides to have a carwash where she will be dressed in a barely there bikini, jumping up and down by the side of the road on a very major street with lots of cars driving by. Some cars containing teenage boys who might be struggling to keep their thoughts pure; Christian dads who might struggle with lust; and of course there would be nonChristian men/boys who ogle; and even the registered sexoffenders who are out living in every city and town, and just maybe there would be a handful of cars with men who aren't tempted visually. But for even tempting ONE man with how she dresses.. that young lady would be wrong, and the parents would be to blame. I for one would NOT want my nearly 16 year old daughter to have her body on display like that. CERTAINLY not all the cars are stopping to be washed because they are going to get the best cleaning job! Besides ALL of that...what are we telling those girls? "Look almost naked so we can get people in here to watch our barely covered bodies wash their cars and earn money"????

I got my fill of sexual relations outside the context of God's plan. Having done it the world's way, and having now done it God's way. I have no desire to do it the World's way again.

Exactly! So why would you want or allow your wife or daughter to do something like that.. something that just accepts the world's idea of how to earn money.

And if you can drive past 12 almost naked teenagers jumping up and down.. then that's great for you.. .... but you must be nearly the ONLY heterosexual male that doesn't have to make a concerted effort to avoid situations like that.

If my (hypothetical) 15 year old daughter went to the beach, should I make her wear t-shirt and bluejeans to keep all the young men at the beach from lusting for her?

I do not see a problem with bikini's at the carwash.

As to "but you must be nearly the ONLY heterosexual male that doesn't have to make a concerted effort to avoid situations like that." That is no problem for me. I can see a pretty woman, acknowledge the fact that she is beautiful, and never "lust" for her. Merely acknowledging that a woman is beautiful is not lusting for her. I can see a woman in a bikini, acknowledge the fact that she looks very good and never even come close to "lusting" for her. I can not remember where I read this I have also heard several prominent pastors (including Adrian Rogers) use very similiar definitions. "If given the opportunity to have sex with a person you are 100% confident you would not take the opportunity, you have not lusted for that person."

We as Christians must operate at a level of Spiritual maturity that allows us to function in society without being "Puritanistic." The puritans attempted to eliminate any source of temptation because they lacked Spiritual maturity. Rather than deal with their own flesh, they modeled society to attempt to eliminate all temptation. If one feels incapable of operating in normal society without succombing to its temptations, they should seriously re-evaluate their level of spiritual maturity.

[hr.jr.]

I live in a very nice, homey suburb of Chicago, population 23,000. I was driving down Main St, Saturday, past the town's only High School, when I was confronted with 2 practically naked teenage girls with jewels hanging off their naked navels, with tiny stips of cloth across their chests in the name of bikini-tops, bouncing up and down with signs guiding them to other equally half-naked girls washing cars.

I was sickened to see such a thing in the parking lot of the High School. They're using sex to make money for "x" (I think it was the cheerleaders). Whatever parent said "ok" to their daughter doing this is insane. There are sexual preditors everywhere, one only needs to go online to find the ones located in their area (and those are only the registered ones). I think the message this sends to all school-attenders (young and old) is horrible. I could go on.... but here's my question:

Would you write to your mayor, school board, superintendent, principal or someone else regarding this matter? I have so much to say regarding this, but wonder if it's just because I'm a Christian and know how much this makes our boys and others stumble/lust, besides the fact that it's so demeaning and sends a horrible message to these girls regarding fund raising, their bodies, using themselves, modesty, etc. etc. etc. Would you write someone?? If so, what would you say? How would you approach it?

BTW, I have a 15 year old daughter in a Christian private school. My 16 year old son is in a special ed program at the High School where this car washing event took place.

When you go to the beach, you see bikinis. When you go to a pool, you see bikinis. When around water, I see no need to be wearing much more than a bathing suit. My wife has a belly button ring, and I absolutely love it. I think a lot of the problem lies in the fact that Christians can not control their own lusts, so they take offense at these trivial things. I do not really care how another woman dresses; it will not make me lust for her. I really do not see how such minor things could offend mature Christians. I guess we should all go back to the days when women swam in the big puffy dresses, and men wore the bathing suits that looked like a Union suit.

This is the post I was responding to so as there is no confusion I'll post my comments here as well.

I just went back and read some of the posts on the front page saying that because it's a car wash and water is involved it only makes sense to wear bathing suits and I agree to a point but why not require them to wear some type of T-shirt over the bathing suit top instead of only having that thin strip of cloth covering the chest area and buttocks region??? There are ways of dressing for these types of events that are sensible without having to show off the body in a sexual manner.

As far as beach and pool activities go those are totally different situations and even then I think that 90% of the suits or lack there of that are worn are tasteless. Can anybody say G-String?? I seriously doubt back in the bible days that when women went to the river to get water that they stripped naked because they didn't want to get their clothes wet. Satan knows that one of man's biggest weaknesses is the temptation of flesh and I have no doubt that he put the idea in the designers heads for some of the very tasteless things we see now days on the beach or at pool side in order to tempt us in lusting.

By the way I define lusting as looking at anyone in a way other than them being just another human being. If you can tell me that you can drive by a car wash with a bunch of teenage girls in skimpy bikinis and not have the urge to look you are a liar and already have sinned on top of lusting. Lust is much more than thinking of someone in a sexual manner but when it benefits one to have an excuse for something we tend to stretch our definition of the word "Lust".

The definition of lust is as follows: The simple definition of lust is having a self-absorbed desire for an object, person, or experience. When we are in lust, we place the object of our desire above all things in our lives. From a Christian perspective lust is bad because we are putting the object of our lust above God. When we are in lust, we have no thought of God and do not know Him.

Again if you can truly say that you as a man don't have the desire to experience or to look at scantily clad women in bikinis and are thinking of god instead of those half naked women when you drive by you are a liar it's built into our very nature. Same goes for women who look at men in that way.

Looking is not lusting. Lusting is looking with a desire to take action. That is where the crucifixion of the flesh is of utmost importance. Paul plainly tells us that we are capable of making our flesh dead to its old sin nature.

I can see a beautiful woman, acknowledge the fact that she is very beautiful and still have no desire to have sex with her. Why? My flesh is crucified. Maybe if men spent more time reading the Bible, sitting under sound Biblical teaching, Praying, fasting, and having a true relationship with God; their flesh would also submit to the desires of the Spirit. Spend all you time watching football, watching stupid tv shows, reading dumb magazines; then you might not exactly have your flesh crucified.

My flesh is crucified and made subject to my spirit. My spirit is in communion with the Holy Spirit. My flesh is capable of having desires. However, my spirit is much more powerful than my flesh. My spirit immediately tells my flesh that it is the temple of the Holy Spirit and will behave accordingly. My spirit immediately tells my flesh that it has become one with my wife and belongs to her and her alone. Many men let their flesh master their spirit. The spirit must always be master to the flesh.

I will give you an example. When I was un-saved, I thought Elle McPherson was the most beautiful woman on the face of planet Earth. I truly lusted for her. Now, you could put Elle McPherson in a time machine and take her back to age 23; and put her in front of me wearing whatever (or nothing) and I would not lust for her. I would acknowledge that she was absolutely beautiful, but would not lust for her. Why? My spirit dominates my flesh. My flesh does not dominate my spirit. My spirit would say, "she is beautiful, but you belong to your wife."

[hr.jr.]

What should you wear at a CARWASH? Kids at a CARWASH squirt each other with water, get wet, and have fun.

You said "kids"...these are fully developed, curvacious teenagers. These are not little kids playing in the sprinkler. The porn industry (for example) sends out scores of ads/spam with links to teens "barely legal".. or "younger"!!! That must mean that some men want that visual.

There are plenty of perverts in the world. I do not re-arrange my life around perverts. If a grown man wants to have sex with an underage girl, he is a pervert. If he acts on the desire, he is a criminal.

[Treasure]

9 And thus ye shall pray, Our Father that art in heavens, hallowed be thy name;

10 thy kingdom come to; be thy will done in earth as it is in heaven ^[a];

11 give to us this day our each day's bread;

12 and forgive to us our debts, as we forgive to our debtors;

13 and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

From Wycliffe's New Testament

Christ saw it needful to show his disciples what must commonly be the matter and method of their prayer. Not that we are tied up to the use of this only, or of this always; yet, without doubt, it is very good to use it. It has much in a little; and it is used acceptably no further than it is used with understanding, and without being needlessly repeated. The petitions are six; the first three relate more expressly to God and his honour, the last three to our own concerns, both

temporal and spiritual. This prayer teaches us to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and that all other things shall be added. After the things of God's glory, kingdom, and will, we pray for the needful supports and comforts of this present life. Every word here has a lesson in it. We ask for bread; that teaches us sobriety and temperance: and we ask only for bread; not for what we do not need. We ask for our bread; that teaches us honesty and industry: we do not ask for the

bread of others, nor the bread of deceit, Pr 20:17; nor the bread of idleness, Pr 31:27, but the bread honestly gotten. We ask for our daily bread; which teaches us constantly to depend upon Divine Providence. We beg of God to give it us; not sell it us, nor lend it us, but give it. The greatest of men must be beholden to the mercy of God for their daily bread. We pray, Give it to us. This teaches us a compassion

for the poor. Also that we ought to pray with our families. We pray that God would give it us this day; which teaches us to renew the desires of our souls toward God, as the wants of our bodies are renewed. As the day comes we must pray to our heavenly Father, and reckon we could as well go a day without food, as without prayer. We are taught to hate and dread sin while we hope for mercy, to distrust ourselves, to rely on the providence and grace of God to keep us from it, to be prepared to

resist the tempter, and not to become tempters of others. Here is a promise, If you forgive, your heavenly Father will also forgive. We must forgive, as we hope to be forgiven. Those who desire to find mercy with God, must show mercy to their brethren. Christ came into the world as the great Peace-maker, not only to reconcile us to God, but one to another. (Mt 6:16-18)

Commentary on same translation.

IMO, it isn't appropriate for any woman (or man) to dress like this except in the presence of their spouse. One person may not be tempted toward sin but others are. I was always taught that "if ya got it, ya don't need to flaunt it". Pardon me for being crude.

What's wrong with wearing a t-shirt and shorts for a carwash

As others have said, I would start with prayer, speak with other parents about it and then go to the principle.

[chicagoburbite]

[chicagoburbite]

9 And thus ye shall pray, Our Father that art in heavens, hallowed be thy name;

10 thy kingdom come to; be thy will done in earth as it is in heaven ^[a];

11 give to us this day our each day's bread;

12 and forgive to us our debts, as we forgive to our debtors;

13 and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

From Wycliffe's New Testament

Christ saw it needful to show his disciples what must commonly be the matter and method of their prayer. Not that we are tied up to the use of this only, or of this always; yet, without doubt, it is very good to use it. It has much in a little; and it is used acceptably no further than it is used with understanding, and without being needlessly repeated. The petitions are six; the first three relate more expressly to God and his honour, the last three to our own concerns, both

temporal and spiritual. This prayer teaches us to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and that all other things shall be added. After the things of God's glory, kingdom, and will, we pray for the needful supports and comforts of this present life. Every word here has a lesson in it. We ask for bread; that teaches us sobriety and temperance: and we ask only for bread; not for what we do not need. We ask for our bread; that teaches us honesty and industry: we do not ask for the

bread of others, nor the bread of deceit, Pr 20:17; nor the bread of idleness, Pr 31:27, but the bread honestly gotten. We ask for our daily bread; which teaches us constantly to depend upon Divine Providence. We beg of God to give it us; not sell it us, nor lend it us, but give it. The greatest of men must be beholden to the mercy of God for their daily bread. We pray, Give it to us. This teaches us a compassion

for the poor. Also that we ought to pray with our families. We pray that God would give it us this day; which teaches us to renew the desires of our souls toward God, as the wants of our bodies are renewed. As the day comes we must pray to our heavenly Father, and reckon we could as well go a day without food, as without prayer. We are taught to hate and dread sin while we hope for mercy, to distrust ourselves, to rely on the providence and grace of God to keep us from it, to be prepared to

resist the tempter, and not to become tempters of others. Here is a promise, If you forgive, your heavenly Father will also forgive. We must forgive, as we hope to be forgiven. Those who desire to find mercy with God, must show mercy to their brethren. Christ came into the world as the great Peace-maker, not only to reconcile us to God, but one to another. (Mt 6:16-18)

Commentary on same translation.

IMO, it isn't appropriate for any woman (or man) to dress like this except in the presence of their spouse. One person may not be tempted toward sin but others are. I was always taught that "if ya got it, ya don't need to flaunt it". Pardon me for being crude.

What's wrong with wearing a t-shirt and shorts for a carwash

As others have said, I would start with prayer, speak with other parents about it and then go to the principle.

Thank you for your advice and great list of verses! I agree that we are responsible for making sure we don't cause someone to stumble by what we do, say, and even how we dress.