The Inerrancy of the Bible

[the_interactionist]

This seems to be a recurring issue that is never settled. Likewise, I'm sure it won't be settled here either.

A while back, on one of my previous posts, I was asked to provide examples of Biblical and scriptural contradictions. I failed to do so then. Sorry I'm so late with these. It takes a lot of time and research, but it cane be done.

Here

[undone]

*sigh*

First, do you know what the term "context" means? It's important for you to understand this if you hope to get past these misunderstandings.

[systemstrike_7]

*sigh*

First, do you know what the term "context" means? It's important for you to understand this if you hope to get past these misunderstandings.

I've heard this so many times from your typical conservative Christian. Listen, as much as you want it too, reading these verses "in context" will not solve your problems.

The originals very well could have been inerrant (although most likely not), but we do not have the originals. We have copies of copies of copies, so on and so forth. Or there is another explanation as to the contradictions, these human writers simply messed up. It's just a mistake, and by understanding the rest of the Bible, we have the ability to decide what is meant in each passage. And with many of the above contradictions, I think the mood and situation would probably have alot to do with what the author wrote down.

But, like I said, the authors were human, and many things could have affected their writings. Also, in the early centuries of Christianity, the people who copied the Gospels and letters were NOT proffesional scribes. Usually, it was merely someone who was able to write (and sometimes they could barely do that!). These copies were made by people with their own theological agendas, people who were tired, people who had a hard time paying attention.

What it comes down to is your trust in God. If you believe God kept the Bible free from mistakes when dealing with important doctrines or important historical events, then why can't we trust the Bible? We do have the ability to analyze the Scripture, to look into it and figure out where mistakes are and where there are no mistakes. It is possible! We are smart people, and God knew that!

Well, that's my two cents. I'm sure this won't go over very well, but these "mistakes" don't affect my relationship with God and His Son. He is still there, and He is still God.

[the_interactionist]

*sigh*

First, do you know what the term "context" means? It's important for you to understand this if you hope to get past these misunderstandings.

Absolutely...

con-text (n.) - the part of a text or statement that surrounds a particular word or passage and determines its meaning OR the circumstances in which an event occurs; a setting.

If you're trying to say that I've taken this scripture out of context, then please "enlighten" me on the matter. Nothing has been taken out of context. Maybe what you mean to say is that I've interpreted it in my own way; however, one cannot deny (at least not honestly) that the verses listed do indeed conflict. How could someone possibly deny that? Unless they were, of course, delusional.

According to the definition of context, I took NOTHING out of context; however, I did emphasize the context - that is, the part of the texts that surrounds particular words (which were emphasized in bold, italics, or underscore by me) and gave the passage its true meaning.

I changed no words in the process of reading them straight out of the KJV and typing them onto this page. I manipulated nothing. I twisted and contorted absolutley nothing. I can't possibly make it any clearer.

If you choose to believe that it's been taken out of context, that's fine.

But, please: how do YOU decipher the meanings of each verse. If they're not conflicting, then please show me how.

If I'm wrong, I deeply apologize and will accept my ignorance. But I was a Christian (according to the popular idea of what a Christian is) for over 20 years. I use to be a fundamentalist. I use to believe the exact same way you believe. I use to believe Christ was the one and only way and truth. I use to believe that the Bible was inerrant. Then I actually read it. Most Christians have a limited knowledge of the entire Bible, especially its history. I use to as well. Then I took the liberty to actually read it. There are so many verses in the Bible, nobody could possibly have them all memorized, nor could they be the perfect interpreter for all of them.

Ultimately, I use believe the same things you all believe. My faith was lost a long time ago. But it is back now and is stronger than ever. I just don't "see" God in the same light you do. No matter how many times one may use Scripture to sway me or change my heart or enlighten me, it simply doesn't work. Scripture is man's written word. Man can claim to have been inspired by God when he wrote it. That doesn't justify it. That is NOT to say that I don't agree with some of it. I don't believe all of the Bible is flawed. Just that which comes from the heart is truly believable and aligns with those principles that cause peace and happiness in life. Verses like the ones in Exodus clearly fall short of peace and happiness (the accounts of Moses' orders to his captains to "keep the little women for themselves").

God's Word lives inside our hearts, in our conscience. It's our intuition, our own natural, inner-knowing. I have a deep, internal conviction that is even backed by Scripture. I believe in this scripture. I have faith that it reveals the essence of God within us. I believe it reveals the truth behind my conviction that we must not look towards words written by men, but into our own hearts that reveal truth, because God is there when we earnestly seek:

2 Corinthians (v. 3) Forsasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in the fleshy tables of the heart. (v. 4) And such trust have we through Christ to Godward; (v. 5) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; (v. 6) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

This is why I believe that the Bible is not inerrant. Paul's ministry in his letter to Corinth clearly states that written word is not the authority of God ("not in tables of stone" or words written by man), but the authority of God's will is written "in the fleshly tables of the heart"; our hearts reveal the way. This is called consience and intuition.

Saying that the Bible is imperfect does not take anything away from God. It simply takes away from dogma and fundamentalism. God still lives on and penetrates that heart of man just as deeply as ever.

Again, this is my own internal conviction of God's truth.

[ted]

Again, this is my own internal conviction of God's truth.

And should be taken as such.

t.

[undone]

1.) Is God good and merciful to all or only a few?

Psalm 145:9 - The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Jeremiah13:14 - And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Sure doesn

[Guest AV1611_USER]

This seems to be a recurring issue that is never settled. Likewise, I'm sure it won't be settled here either.

A while back, on one of my previous posts, I was asked to provide examples of Biblical and scriptural contradictions. I failed to do so then. Sorry I'm so late with these. It takes a lot of time and research, but it cane be done.

Here’s a short list of Biblical contradictions. All emphasis are mine unless otherwise indicated. Note: I changed absolutely nothing in these scriptures/ verses. I have recorded them precisely as they appear in my very own KJV Holy Bible.

1.) Is God good and merciful to all or only a few?

Psalm 145:9 - The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Jeremiah13:14 - And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Sure doesn’t sound like a God who is good to all or has mercy over all his works.

2.) Is God a god of war or of peace?

Exodus 15:3 - The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

Romans 15:33 - Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

How can He be a God of both and still fit into the criteria of the Christian God?How can such a God of perfection take on a seemingly bi-polar personality?

3.) Who is the father of Joseph?

Matthew 1:16 - And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luke 3:23 - And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Heli? I thought it was Jacob? I’m confused.

4.) Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?

John 10:30 - “I and my Father are one.”

John 14:28 - “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

If God is greater than Christ how can they be one? One verse depicts separation, the other coalescence. Which is true? Almost seems as if Jesus was contradicting himself does it not?

Then the possibility exists that if Jesus is the perfect Messiah, how could he contradict himself? Simple. He may not have. John may have contradicted the words of Jesus by incorrectly recording what Jesus actually said. Hence, the possibility of Biblical inerrancy obviously exists.

5.) How many stalls and horsemen did Solomon have?

1 Kings 4:26 - And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

2 Chronicles 9:25 - And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

According to my KJV Holy Bible, the author of the Books of the Kings is unknown. Does anyone know who wrote the books of the Chronicles? Were there two different authors for these books? Or was it the same author who is evidently getting his own story mixed up a bit?

If it were two different authors, why is the second off so much by how many stalls for horses Solomon had? According to Biblicists, each progressive author had access to the records and texts from the Bible that came before them, so there should be no room for error. But there is.

6.) Is wisdom good or bad?

Proberbs 4:7 - Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

Ecclesiastes 1:18 - For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1 Corinthians 1:19 - "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

Is this conflict or is it two different descriptions of wisdom? If so, why does the Bible not go about explaining which way to wisdom (specifically using the word ‘wisdom’) is the right way?

7.) Was Jesus conception one of human or spiritual impregnation?

Acts 2:30 - Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Matthew 1:18 - Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Which is it? In the book of the Acts it is said that Jesus is the “fruit of his loins,” (‘his’ being Joseph). To be the fruit of one’s loins, one must have come from the “loins” of their earthly father: the term fruit refers to offspring; loins refers to Joseph’s reproductive biology.

However, in the book of Matthew, Matthew writes that ‘before they came together’ (coming together traditionally meaning as husband and wife, in intercourse), Joseph found Mary with child (already pregnant) with the child of the Holy Ghost.

How does one decipher these two blatantly conflicting documentations of Jesus’ conception?

8.) The sins of the father - sins of their sons, or not?

Isaiah 14:21 - Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

Deuteronomy 24:16 - The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

In the first place, why would God command or condone the bloodshed and mass murders of innocent children? Because their father’s sinned? Because their fathers’ did wrong?

Deuteronomy tells a different story, one that is more accurate of a God of peace (Romans 15:33). Isaiah’s writings tells of an angry, merciless, downright cruel God, perhaps the God of Exodus (specifically 15:3).

Regardless of whether one considers Isaiah true over Deuteronomy or vice versa, the fact remains that Deuteronomy conflicts with Isaiah very bluntly. Both accounts cannot be correct because they are in stark contrast to one another.

9.) Did the fowl(s) come from the waters or the ground?

Genesis 1:20 - And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Genesis 1:21 - And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 2:19 - And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

One may theorize that the ground and waters were mean to simply mean ‘earth’, but why not then just use the term earth? Why use to completely different elements? And by the exact same author?

10.) Is this some kind of “divine” genetic engineering?

Genesis 30:39 - And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.

Some strange goings-on here that’s for sure. In the entire chapter. These accounts could be “twisted” to describe the process of evolution if one dared be so bold. Read the entire chapter and realize that this is nothing more than magic and miracles that allegedly took place.

But how do you get a flock to turn into cattle? Flock is a term used to describe birds or fowls, not cattle or four-legged creatures. That is called a ‘herd.’ The term herd can be found abundantly throughout the book of Genesis. So why would the author need to use the word flock for herd? Unless flock meant something else?

11.) Moses’ personality - akin to Adolf Hitler?

Numbers 12:3 - Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth."

Numbers 31:14-15 & 17-18 - ( v. 14) And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and the captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. (v. 15) And Moses said unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? (v. 17) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. (v. 18) But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

If ever there were a model example of psychiatric disorder Moses seems to fit the candidacy. How can one be so meek, yet command his soldiers to perform such acts. Acts akin to Hitler’s during World War II and the Holocaust.

Some of this even sounds as if Moses were ordering his men to keep the young girls alive for their own pleasures (what other reason do they have to take only the “women children, that have not known many by lying with him”?).

12.) Will the righteous live or perish?

Psalm 92:12 - "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."

Isaiah 57:1 - "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."

13.) What exactly happened to Judas? How did he die?

Acts 1:18 - "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

Matthew 27:5-7 - "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."

In Acts, it clearly states that Judas’ death was the direct result of an accident; however, in Matthew, he writes that Judas hanged himself. Suicide.

***My question is: what do you make of these? How can you proclaim inerrance with so many contradictions?

Man wrote "God's word," not God. Man errors.

Surely, I'll be attacked for this one, but I mean no harm. I just want people to accept the facts for what they are, not for how they wish they were.

1) Yes, God is merciful and full of compassion. Yet, those who reject his mercy and compassion will find that His judgment in unrelenting and ferocious -- that is His nature.

2) In Romans, Paul seems to be speaking of peace in a subjective, existential sense -- a relationship with God brings a sense of peace. This does not mean peace as in an absence of war.

3) Luke 3:23 reads, "Jesus...being supposedly the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, etc." Luke certainly draws attention to the fact that Jesus was not truly Joseph's son, so why would he then go to all the trouble in listing Joseph's genealogy?

4) These verses have to do with the trinity, which is beyond our understanding.

5) These verses are referring to different points in time.

6) I don't see a contradiction there. If it is, then it is more likely a different definition of wisdom.

7) He mentions David in the verse before, so "fruit of his loins" refers to David, not Joseph. Jesus was a decendent of David; through Mary.

8) That verse in Isaiah is a prophecy about the imputation of a sin nature. No contradiction here.

9) The fowls are not beasts of the field, but of the sky.

10) Early english grammar was different.

11) It wasn't an order by Moses, but a command from God that they be killed.

12) The righteous are hated by the wicked, so they are killed physically, but they will flourish in Heaven.

13) The disciple Thaddeus was also called Judas.

There is not a single, true contradiction in the Bible. For more information, look here: http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm

Edited July 6, 2007 by AV1611_USER

[undone]

This seems to be a recurring issue that is never settled. Likewise, I'm sure it won't be settled here either.

A while back, on one of my previous posts, I was asked to provide examples of Biblical and scriptural contradictions. I failed to do so then. Sorry I'm so late with these. It takes a lot of time and research, but it cane be done.

Here

[the_interactionist]

This seems to be a recurring issue that is never settled. Likewise, I'm sure it won't be settled here either.

A while back, on one of my previous posts, I was asked to provide examples of Biblical and scriptural contradictions. I failed to do so then. Sorry I'm so late with these. It takes a lot of time and research, but it cane be done.

Here

[Guest Biblicist]

Blessed Be