patricia1 Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Hi folks... Does this section of scripture imply that a Christian can loose his salvation? 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. No it doesn't imply it. It states it clearly. -I believe this was answered another place and those above are not twisting scripture!!!! The author is comparing the saved hebrews who are deciding to return to the old law to save themselves from persecution. He also encourages them from weakening. Look up the history and facts. When they were under the law they were safe. Being a hebrew believer they are no longer safe. Happened many times in the bible and history of the world and will happen again!!! Before two or three witnesses let it be established...... patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 Hi folks... Does this section of scripture imply that a Christian can loose his salvation? 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. No it doesn't imply it. It states it clearly. -I believe this was answered another place and those above are not twisting scripture!!!! The author is comparing the saved hebrews who are deciding to return to the old law to save themselves from persecution. He also encourages them from weakening. Look up the history and facts. When they were under the law they were safe. Being a hebrew believer they are no longer safe. Happened many times in the bible and history of the world and will happen again!!! Before two or three witnesses let it be established...... patricia That answer makes no sense. You say the Law made them safe and was the "heavenly gift" and was the "power of the age to come"? The Law has never been salvific for anyone nor did it make anyone "safe". It only condemns us. The New Testament clearly states the law had no power to save. Besides, why such a strong warning if they were in no real danger of falling away? sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Hi folks... Does this section of scripture imply that a Christian can loose his salvation? 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. No it doesn't imply it. It states it clearly. -I believe this was answered another place and those above are not twisting scripture!!!! The author is comparing the saved hebrews who are deciding to return to the old law to save themselves from persecution. He also encourages them from weakening. Look up the history and facts. When they were under the law they were safe. Being a hebrew believer they are no longer safe. Happened many times in the bible and history of the world and will happen again!!! Before two or three witnesses let it be established...... patricia That answer makes no sense. You say the Law made them safe and was the "heavenly gift" and was the "power of the age to come"? The Law has never been salvific for anyone nor did it make anyone "safe". It only condemns us. The New Testament clearly states the law had no power to save. Besides, why such a strong warning if they were in no real danger of falling away? sw I mean physically safe not spiritually safe. Since the beginning of time groups of people have always regressed do to fear or saving their own skin. That is why we have the scripture stateing not to fear man who can kill the body, but fear God who can destroy both body and soul!!! When the isrealites were set free from egypt by God through moses, after things got tought and they wanted to return! Do you not think that would be a picture of a person whom is deliver sovereignly by Gods Grace and wants to return to back to the world? ( into bondage again) Sometimes christians get saved and then after it gets tough revert somewhat. Returning like the prodigal son. I do no believe once saved always saved. Rev talks about having your name written in thr Lambs boo of Life and then having it blotted out. there are many more...but that is enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 I believe the parable of the seeds, lends support to the state of false conversions: Matthew 13 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: "A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop--a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 He who has ears, let him hear." 10 The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" 11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' 16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. 18 "Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. 23 But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown." I don't believe it's a matter of "losing" salvation, but of thinking you're saved, when in fact, you are not, because there was not a point of true brokenness over sin and repentance. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 I don't believe it's a matter of "losing" salvation, but of thinking you're saved, when in fact, you are not, because there was not a point of true brokenness over sin and repentance. In His Love, Suzanne But I am seeing the same type of delusion in your postings in the other thread. Do you really think that true brokenness and repentance is only a "point" or one time event? That is precisely what I am taking from your postings. You completely deny the fact of ongoing sin in the life of the believer. If there is any real evidence of someone thinking they are saved when they are not its denying they are still sinners and still sinning. If we view the law at full strength and what it really demands of us we surely know how far short we fall. I think you are confusing morality with the Law and that is very dangerous. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 There is a VAST difference between one who walks in the "lifestyle" of sin, and one who is being sanctified and walking in the Spirit....the one who walks in the Spirit, takes hold of the effectual working power of God's Grace, when tempted, and does not live a lifestyle of willful disobedience. A true believer acknowledges his sin and commits to following Christ Jesus in His teachings of God. There is a reason that 85% of adult Americans are claiming to be Christian, when the evidence of fruit is absent. And the lack of teaching of these portions of God's Word and encouragement of walking in the Spirit, is much to blame for this. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted August 3, 2007 (edited) I don't believe it's a matter of "losing" salvation, but of thinking you're saved, when in fact, you are not, because there was not a point of true brokenness over sin and repentance. In His Love, Suzanne But I am seeing the same type of delusion in your postings in the other thread. Do you really think that true brokenness and repentance is only a "point" or one time event? That is precisely what I am taking from your postings. You completely deny the fact of ongoing sin in the life of the believer. If there is any real evidence of someone thinking they are saved when they are not its denying they are still sinners and still sinning. If we view the law at full strength and what it really demands of us we surely know how far short we fall. I think you are confusing morality with the Law and that is very dangerous. sw I am not sure who you are asking but I believe all those seeds were the words of God put into the Christian who is already saved. but turns away from the lord because they decided to feed their lusts rather than love God and attending to the seed. . I believe true brokeness and repententence is bothe. Our sin is wiped away By The Blood of Jesus when we come to a saving knowledge of His glory and Grace. We realize we are sinners. We are to seek The Lord our God, and Love Him with all our might and so on. I am not in charge of anybody elses walk....We tie Gods hands if we do not do what is told of us to do...and those things are to bring us to The Fullness of Him Jesus.... Christians sin... we still remain to have to repent. He will and can give us over to a reprobate mind. True brokeness should be leading you to repentence. Steudy the Greek words of repentence. And I do agree people get caught up in the moment and then later change their mind. truly sincere, but are not will to count the cost. I do believe a person may think they are saved and are not. I much rather use salvation, saved by grace. Salvation as a verb...Salvation as a noun. To be delivered out of...... doesn't mean you cannot go back in. Edited August 3, 2007 by patricia1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 There is a VAST difference between one who walks in the "lifestyle" of sin, and one who is being sanctified and walking in the Spirit....the one who walks in the Spirit, takes hold of the effectual working power of God's Grace, when tempted, and does not live a lifestyle of willful disobedience. A true believer acknowledges his sin and commits to following Christ Jesus in His teachings of God. There is a reason that 85% of adult Americans are claiming to be Christian, when the evidence of fruit is absent. And the lack of teaching of these portions of God's Word and encouragement of walking in the Spirit, is much to blame for this. In His Love, Suzanne None of what you said indicates that Christians are also not sinners. Do you believe you still sin? Have you sinned today? sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2007 And do you believe that the Word of God and His Holy Spirit has no power? 2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted August 3, 2007 And do you believe that the Word of God and His Holy Spirit has no power? 2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. In His Love, Suzanne we sin sometimes without knowing. but I think I may step out of this one if you guys want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts