eric Posted February 12, 2004 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Whoops-e-do, we're off again. :x: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure4salvation Posted February 12, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 520 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Howdy all! You knew I would chime in here! I don't know why, but for some reason the forum allowed me access today. I emailed George again to see if it is a problem on my side or what, but I am having a lot of trouble logging in. Anyway..... Baptism is a direct commandment from the Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 16:16, Matthew 28:19-20). Baptism is the way that we are united with Christ (Romans 6:3-6, Galatians 3:27). Baptism saves us and gives us a clear conscience before God (1 Peter 3:21). Baptism is an elementary doctrine in Christianity (Hebrews 6:2). Also.......... For emphasis sake......... Look closely at the conversion story of The Apostle Paul (then Saul). Acts 22 records the story. Acts 22:8 tells us that Jesus told Saul who He was. Acts 22:10 shows us that Saul BELIEVED and CONFESSED that JESUS IS LORD. Yet, in Acts 22:16 we read that Saul was still unbaptized and was told to be baptized.....why? TO WASH AWAY HIS SINS AND CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD!!!!!!!! This and Romans 6 are clear that tells us that BAPTISM is HOW we are UNITED with Christ and HOW we call upon the name of the LORD to be saved. Be blessed all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted February 12, 2004 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted February 12, 2004 IMO, In acts 22:16, Paul was emphasising the act of calling on the Lord to wash away your sins, not rising up to be baptised. No point of being baptised if you haven't called on His name. My brother-in-law, called on the name of the Lord on his deathbed and died without baptism. Are you about to tell me that he wasn't saved? Read the whole chapter and get it in the right context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dove2 Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 I believe in baptism. It is not necessary for salvation. Look at the thief on the cross. Tell me when did he have time to be baptized? He didn't and he was not baptized; yet he was saved. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward belief in Christ. When we are baptized, it shows that we want to die to self and be raised to Christ. As we go under the water the old man dies and when we rise from the water the new man in Jesus arises. Not literally, but in the sense this is what we are seeking is a new life in Jesus. The Bible says a man can not inherit the kingdom unless he is born of water and spirit. Jesus is that water and spirit. We don't need baptism to be born again. My goodness, Jesus bought that salvation for us. He doesn't need some created solution to wash us clean. We are clean by the blood of the Lamb. Yes, we should be baptized. We are told to be baptized. If one accepts Jesus on their deathbed and does not get baptized they still go to be with Jesus. The thief on the cross did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted February 12, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2004 ummmmmm lets say I go down to the river every day of my life and every day have a different preacher baptise me.... does that mean i can get to heaven?????? WRONG........... I can not get to heaven unless I have Jesus in my heart... unless I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior...... on the crosses the last day Jesus was with us prior to His death, there were two other men...... both thieves...... one of them was saved..... oh yea, guess what??? thats right, he was not baptised...... yes, we are instructed to be baptised...... as a sign of being obedient to the Lord..... Paul ( in Corinthians ) stated that he was not here to be baptising people ..... 1st Cor. 1:10 - 16 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul Crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other." would it not be a shame that a person accept the Lord Jesus this evening, and being there is no baptizimal availible until tomorrow or the river is full of ice tonite and wont thaw until spring that every one not baptized would be lost, even thou they have Jesus in their hearts??? Baptism is not a manditory item for salvation, but to show our obediance to the Lord, we are to be baptized.... as was mentioned earlier, it is like a signing of the new covenant....... did you know there are denominations that say that speaking in tongues is of the devil? but there are also denominations that say if you do not speak in tongues you are not truely saved?? wow, these all say they are Christian...... there are many many many things that are availible to the Believer/Follower ...... there are many things that we "SHOULD" do as a believer..... but just because we do not do " works " does not mean we are unsaved..... Baptizm is of our own doing... if that is what we need for salvation, then why did Jesus die???? baptizm is a form of work...... we are doing this to each other....... did Jesus baptize anyone???? I do not recall anyone being baptized by Jesus..... John was preaching REPENTANCE...... and was baptizing ..... let us not get caught up in the works of being a Christian/believer..... let us get more caught up in the Lord and the Word of God... not on our differances.... if you like to pray in tongues, Great... if you dont, Great..... if you like to raise your hands in church while worshipping, Great..... if not, Great.... if you like slow 100 year old music in church, Great.... if you like new stuff in church, Great.... if you like black and white outfits in church, floor length dresses, long trousers, white shirts and blouses, and hats and bonnets, Great...... if you like jeans and tee-shirts, Great..... if you like long hair, Wonderful..... if you like short hair, Wonderful....... things such as this dont matter, what matters is the Lord God... and His Awesome Wonderful Love He has Unconditionally shared with us thru Jesus...... and Jesus loving us so much that He laid down and gave His precious life for us so that we may live.... as He died to make men holy, let us Live to make men free.... how??? by bringing them to Christ Jesus, that is how we can make them free...... not by dunking them under water...... The Spirit of God will show them what they are to do, and will be there when they are baptized...... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 12, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 265 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2004 First of all, I would like to point out that I did mention the topic of grace, and that we are saved by it through faith. What is faith? Believing and hoping in what we have not seen. We can believe, and we can do two things with that belief. We can either believe which leads us to love God, or believe and pass it in the trash because we don't care. If we believe, and love God, through loving God, we will do what God tells us. Correct? I have shown scripture stating how baptism is for salvation, and I have many more if need be shared. However, if you can prove that it is NOT necessary for salvation, please, show me! But show me with scripture! As to the idea of baptism being a "first sacrament," I don't know if that is a Catholic or Episcapalian <sp?> belief, but I have yet to see the word sacrament in the Bible. As to the idea of Jesus' baptism being for salvation, that is not possible at all. We have scripture telling us that John's baptism was just simply a baptism of repentance, and that the baptism we participate in WITH Jesus (Romans 6:1-9), that is the baptism we have now, which is for salvation (1 Peter 3:21). Jesus had no sin, he was baptized as an example of the necisity <sp?> it would later present. Finally, as to the idea known as "once saved always saved by grace," that is an impossible idea. Once we are saved, we can lose the gift of God. We can reject, we can push it away. Jesus died enabling us an inheritance with God, but that doesn't mean we get it. If someone becomes a Christian, truly and sincerely in their heart, and then turns away to worship Satan, will he be saved? No... Don't take my word on it, take God's word on it. In Acts 8, Simon the Sorceror attempted to buy the gift of "laying on hands," and for it his salvation was lost (however, it was still possible for him to attain it again through prayer of forgiveness). Don't just tell me your view, tell me your view with God-breathed words to back it up. First of all, Let me point out to who the questions were directed. You might to scroll up and check it out again. But since you have commented, lets just go with it...lol " I have shown scripture stating how baptism is for salvation" Quite contraire, oh ye so quick to presume....lol I havent seen scripture posted that supports your beleif. What I have seen is scripture posted that you have taken out of context and attempted to use to support your statements. There's a major difference. As for baptizing saving, Like I said earlier, its already been a subject matter here, and if you cant advance on that matter, then it will be useless to discuss matters repeatedly. Seeing that we will just be going in circles. We have scripture telling us that John's baptism was just simply a baptism of repentance, and that the baptism we participate in WITH Jesus (Romans 6:1-9), that is the baptism we have now, which is for salvation (1 Peter 3:21). Jesus had no sin, he was baptized as an example of the necisity <sp?> it would later present. Whoa! Hold the train! lol If Jesus was baptized as an example of the necessity of baptism... If John's baptism was simply a baptism of repentance.. Which is it? It cant be both, Jesus had no sin..If Jesus was baptized as an act of repentance, it becomes a blasphemous statement. Since He was sinless. So Jesus's baptism was not a baptism of repentance. And the baptism did not save Him. But... If Jesus was baptized in order set an example for the believer, Then baptism does not save. It just provides an example and fulfills the commandment of God. Wait a minute! They both have the same conclusion... When Jesus came, something changed huh? lol Baptism does not save. It is an outward expression, of an inward event. It fulfills the command of God to be baptized. It is representative of our taking part in the death, burial, and ressurection of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is symbolically entering into a watery grave, and being raised to newness of life through Christ. Experiencing that newness of life comes from a baptism in Christ, through the rejuvenation of the Holy Spirit. That is a baptism that saves. " Finally, as to the idea known as "once saved always saved by grace," that is an impossible idea. Once we are saved, we can lose the gift of God. We can reject, we can push it away. Jesus died enabling us an inheritance with God, but that doesn't mean we get it." Hmmm...I wonder why you brought OSAS up...lol Could it be your an old poster with a new name? lol It might be an impossible idea to some. But with God all things are possible.... And if you never get it....then you never had it to begin with.  For those that choose to live under bondage and hope that they will be saved someday. I feel sorry for you. Because there are some of us who have freedom through Christ, and we KNOW we are saved for time and eternity. We know what the shed blood of Jesus did! And we know the Grace of God. But thats another topic of dissension that has been run ragged on the boards as well. " No... Don't take my word on it, take God's word on it. In Acts 8, Simon the Sorceror attempted to buy the gift of "laying on hands," and for it his salvation was lost (however, it was still possible for him to attain it again through prayer of forgiveness)." Im not taking your word for it...lol Anyone who takes anything other than God's Word would be making a grave mistake in basing their beliefs on man's word and not God's. As for Simon the sorcerer...I think you are reading something into the scriptures that is not there. Does it say anywhere in Acts 8, that Simon was lost? No it doesnt! Let's be careful not to add to, or take away from God's Word. Thats a serious error. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Let's break it down to a simple question here. If an unsaved person gets baptised without a profession of faith have they been saved? If so, what is different about that tub of water and why not drop that on Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile21 Posted February 13, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2004 To Mobile21: Was Jesus saved by John when he was baptized? If salvation comes from baptism, then it leaves a dilemma doesnt it? If baptism is a part of salvation, then again, why would Christ need to be baptized? Did Jesus have a need to be saved? Think carefully.... lol Of course baptism didn't save Jesus, what Jesus did is to institute the sacrament of baptism and to demonstrate the true action of the Holy Spirit in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 13, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 265 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2004 To Mobile21: Was Jesus saved by John when he was baptized? If salvation comes from baptism, then it leaves a dilemma doesnt it? If baptism is a part of salvation, then again, why would Christ need to be baptized? Did Jesus have a need to be saved? Think carefully.... lol Of course baptism didn't save Jesus, what Jesus did is to institute the sacrament of baptism and to demonstrate the true action of the Holy Spirit in it. Mobile21: Physical baptism was being performed by John before Jesus approached him. It was already instituted. Jesus did not require John to change anything in the manner in which he was previously baptizing. John distuinguished between the baptizing he was performing and the baptism that Jesus would perform. " And I knew Him not: but that He sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon Whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, the same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost." John 1: 33. Jesus had already instituted physical water baptism through John. From the above verse, would you agree that it reveals that Jesus provides a seperate baptism in the Holy Ghost? If you can agree with that, since it is what the scriptures state, then a question ...If salvation came through baptism, then why would Christ have to provide a seperate baptism in the Holy Ghost? If the first water baptism caused the one being baptized to receive the Holy Ghost, then there would be no need for the second. Since it would save the one being baptized. They would already be indwelt with the Holy Ghost. But yet John distuinguishes between water baptism and a baptism into Jesus. " And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coast came to Ephesus, and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? and they said unto Him, we have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance. Saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them, and they spake with tongues , and prophesied. " Acts 19:1-6. This reveals that believing on Jesus preceeded baptism, and that water baptism in itself was not enough to receive the Holy Ghost. Would you agree that receiving the Holy Ghost is an integral part of salvation? Keep in mind that they did not have the Holy Ghost beforehand, but afterwards. Let's see what the scriptures say about the Holy Ghost. " But ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. " Romans 8:9. So what do you think? Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justjake Posted February 14, 2004 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 69 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Romans 6 (NCV) v. 3--Did you forget that all of us became part of Christ when we were baptized? We shared his death in our baptism. v. 4--When we were baptized, we were burried with Christ and shared his death. So, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the wonderful power of the Father, we also can live a new life. v. 5--Christ did, and we have been joined with him by dying too. So we will also be joined with him by raising from the dead as he did. Baptism is how we are united with Christ. A death (under the water) and a resurrection (up out of the water) is the most beautiful thing in the world. Thank you, Jesus for your death and resurrection. I love you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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