eagleswings Posted August 19, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 613 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1959 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Vickilynn, You preach it sister. I haven't bothered to reply to this thread and if I had it would only be to endorse your remarks. You're doing alright on your own, and some help from F8th and Scarlet. There are many, many reasons for the human brain to become unbalanced and in need of neurolgical assistance and/or medication. What is spiritual and what is clinical are two seperate issues. The skills and gifts that God has given some of our neurologist/surgeons makes these catholic exorcists look like plumbers with two left hands. You go girls. You know at one time I really thought the medical community DID know what was going on. The tampering and adjusting of the chemicals in the mind to MAKE someone feel better about themselves without addressing the emotional issue is WAY out of line.. WHy don't you read the first post that had the article about what these MIND altering drugs are doing... How about learn what these "exorcists" "deliverance ministers are doing... how about check their fruit before you send people out for a life of a label of mental illness. Jesus can heal depression, chemical imbalance, and anxiety, and a broken heart. Blessings, Karen I saw your "fruit" a month or so ago, I'll pass. And I see your "fruit" now....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted August 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted August 19, 2007 good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 There seems to be two polar opposites in this debate: those who believe that all (or almost all) mental illness, and even most physical illness is the result of demonic forces. The other side argues that there is no such thing as demonic possession, or even demonic oppression still occurring in these post-modern times. Hmmmm.........well, folks, the reality lies somewhere in the middle. Satan and his minions are still alive and well, and wreaking havoc in the world. And, mental illness can be, and most often is, the result of emotional trauma, chemical imbalance or genetics. Maybe there's not a demon behind every rock. But let's face it, they're out there. To deny that is to deny Scripture: "Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour" I Peter 5:8 Unfortunately, exorcisms still occur. Real ones. No cameras, no reporters. You can scoff, eric, but the Catholic Church does still perform exorcisms. And, they are not entered into lightly. Before an exorcism is approved, serious research is done to determine that the source of the trouble is definitely demonic, and not some other source. You can say alot of things about the RCC, but it is slow to pronounce miracles ......and demonic activity. While alot of the discussion here is way over the top, Satan does exist. He is still "the prince of this world", and he knows his time is short. Yes, we already have the victory and he has no power over us----as long as we are submitted to Jesus. But many of us let our relationship wane from time to time, and put ourselves at risk of the influence of the prince of lies. Each time we sin, in fact---he wins a small victory. Each time we sin, we choose Satan over Jesus. Sobering thought. Our world is so crowded with material goods; our lives are so hectic. It is difficult to tear our focus away from this world and lift our eyes to heaven. And, maybe even more difficult to acknowledge the demonic presence existing alongside the visible world. Don't take him lightly. Peace, Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8thNJesus Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 112 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) If all we needed were some good doctors with a a knowledge in what kind of prescription to hand out, then we would not have phsyc wards full of people that will be there until they die! Years ago people that were homo-sexual were labeled as having a "mental disorder" I will stand firm on the fact that any thing that causes us to sin, is a spiritual matter, that needs the supernatural power of JESUS. I first came to worthy because of the fact that i was in a forum(that does not allow debate), and a christian stated that God would not find a person guilty of there sin because they had OCD. They were viewing porn, but because of their OCD, they could not stop. I wanted to see what other christians thought. I thought it was clear in the Scriptures that said "He who is free, is free indeed," and the girl was the minority thinking this. I have since found out, I am wrong. What I have found, is this 1. Some people believe that there is no such thing as demonic bondage. 2. Some believe there is such a thing as demonic bondage. 3. Some people believe that if a doctor can't heal it, and if a prayer of healing can't heal it, then it is GOD's will. My question is this. If there are those that have been labeled with a Mental disorder, because of something that is considered a sin in the bible, do you think that it can truly be healed with a drug, and what about those that medicine cannot make it go away? P.S. Fiosh you and i were apparantely posting at the same time. I liked your post. And you surmized this thread well! Edited August 20, 2007 by F8thNJesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 There seems to be two polar opposites in this debate: those who believe that all (or almost all) mental illness, and even most physical illness is the result of demonic forces. The other side argues that there is no such thing as demonic possession, or even demonic oppression still occurring in these post-modern times. Hmmmm.........well, folks, the reality lies somewhere in the middle. Satan and his minions are still alive and well, and wreaking havoc in the world. And, mental illness can be, and most often is, the result of emotional trauma, chemical imbalance or genetics. Maybe there's not a demon behind every rock. But let's face it, they're out there. To deny that is to deny Scripture: "Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour" I Peter 5:8 Unfortunately, exorcisms still occur. Real ones. No cameras, no reporters. You can scoff, eric, but the Catholic Church does still perform exorcisms. And, they are not entered into lightly. Before an exorcism is approved, serious research is done to determine that the source of the trouble is definitely demonic, and not some other source. You can say alot of things about the RCC, but it is slow to pronounce miracles ......and demonic activity. While alot of the discussion here is way over the top, Satan does exist. He is still "the prince of this world", and he knows his time is short. Yes, we already have the victory and he has no power over us----as long as we are submitted to Jesus. But many of us let our relationship wane from time to time, and put ourselves at risk of the influence of the prince of lies. Each time we sin, in fact---he wins a small victory. Each time we sin, we choose Satan over Jesus. Sobering thought. Our world is so crowded with material goods; our lives are so hectic. It is difficult to tear our focus away from this world and lift our eyes to heaven. And, maybe even more difficult to acknowledge the demonic presence existing alongside the visible world. Don't take him lightly. Peace, Fiosh Shalom Fiosh, Sorry, you've completely mis-stated the 2 sides, especially my stand. If you read my posts carefully, you'll see that I say there ARE illnesses, mental and other, that can be caused by demonic influence. However, I refute the assertions that ALL mental illness is caused by demons. And I refute that Christians need exorcism. No one is ignoring the enemy, I'm just not giving him more ground that he really has. And Christians would be wise to do the same. And, again, the Bible is clear that NO born-again child of G-d who has the Holy Spirit indwelling them can be indwelt by a demon. It's simply not Scriptural, no matter what the church might say. The Scriptures are the authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted August 20, 2007 F8thNJesus. What I have found, is this 1. Some people believe that there is no such thing as demonic bondage. 2. Some believe there is such a thing as demonic bondage. 3. Some people believe that if a doctor can't heal it, and if a prayer of healing can't heal it, then it is GOD's will. My question is this. If there are those that have been labeled with a Mental disorder, because of something that is considered a sin in the bible, do you think that it can truly be healed with a drug, and what about those that medicine cannot make it go away? I would like everyone to understand, that I am not referring to non believers who have mental problems or demons. I'm referring to christians who have some kind of delusion or mental breakdown. It is my personal belief that true born again christians are not only covered by the shed blood of the Lamb, but also they have the indwelling of the Holy spirirt all of which, according to my reading, is more than enough to stave off the attacks of any demon or satan. If a person sins after repentance, that person is in enemy territory and open to attack. So yeh yeh yeh we all sin at sometimes in our walk, but we realise it when we do and are quick to repent and confess and ask for forgiveness as 1Jn1:9. Too many people take Jesus for granted and try and shrug off the sin as being a slight stumble and pay no more attention to it. The consequences of sin, for stumling, christians are more likely to grieve the Holy Spirit than the sins of the pagan, who know no better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted August 20, 2007 For my sister Fiosh, I surely don't take the enemy lightly, no way. However , I don't think he is likely to sit off at a distance and pick off a few stragglers. the main enemy of satan is God and His church. Picking on individuals gets him nowhere. the devil is causing the big apostacy, that the church is going through now, because of the false teachers like the emerging churches and the new age and the churches that are intoducing yoga and other forms of mysticism into the services. People are not interested in the truth, today, They would sooner believe the lies perpertrated by satan, through his hand picked liars he has trained. Post modern chuches?? are out growing THE church in leaps and bounds, because they are hearing what they want to hear. Trying to unsettle an individual, gets him nowhere in his scheme of things. But hey, Fiosh, you are still my favourite catholic buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 If all we needed were some good doctors with a a knowledge in what kind of prescription to hand out, then we would not have phsyc wards full of people that will be there until they die! Shalom, Are all those in the psych wards born-again Christians? No. So the example isn't really applicable. We are talking Christians, not non-Christians. We Christians trust in the L-rd Jesus as our Healer and we know that He uses many means to accomplish His healings. Sometimes He heals miraculously, sometimes He uses doctors and/or medicines and/or treatments. For the Christian it is NOT demonic indwelling, it cannot be. Years ago people that were homo-sexual were labeled as having a "mental disorder" While that may be true, it has no bearing on the discussion at hand. I will stand firm on the fact that any thing that causes us to sin, is a spiritual matter, that needs the supernatural power of JESUS. But Faith, that's not what this thread is about. That's not what the article is about, so that statement, again, really doesn't apply. We are not talking sin, we are talking demonic bondage! Of course, sin is a different story. What I have found, is this 1. Some people believe that there is no such thing as demonic bondage. 2. Some believe there is such a thing as demonic bondage. 3. Some people believe that if a doctor can't heal it, and if a prayer of healing can't heal it, then it is GOD's will. I'm sorry, but again, these generalities aren't reflective of those who you haven't met. This is your opinion, based on your experience, but it is not a true picture of what all people believe. My beliefs are not represented in your list. My question is this. If there are those that have been labeled with a Mental disorder, because of something that is considered a sin in the bible, do you think that it can truly be healed with a drug, and what about those that medicine cannot make it go away? What "mental illness caused by sin" for example? If there is a physiological cause for the mental illness, (such as depression or anxiety) then a medicine may remedy that condition completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 There seems to be two polar opposites in this debate: those who believe that all (or almost all) mental illness, and even most physical illness is the result of demonic forces. The other side argues that there is no such thing as demonic possession, or even demonic oppression still occurring in these post-modern times. Hmmmm.........well, folks, the reality lies somewhere in the middle. Satan and his minions are still alive and well, and wreaking havoc in the world. And, mental illness can be, and most often is, the result of emotional trauma, chemical imbalance or genetics. Maybe there's not a demon behind every rock. But let's face it, they're out there. To deny that is to deny Scripture: "Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour" I Peter 5:8 Unfortunately, exorcisms still occur. Real ones. No cameras, no reporters. You can scoff, eric, but the Catholic Church does still perform exorcisms. And, they are not entered into lightly. Before an exorcism is approved, serious research is done to determine that the source of the trouble is definitely demonic, and not some other source. You can say alot of things about the RCC, but it is slow to pronounce miracles ......and demonic activity. While alot of the discussion here is way over the top, Satan does exist. He is still "the prince of this world", and he knows his time is short. Yes, we already have the victory and he has no power over us----as long as we are submitted to Jesus. But many of us let our relationship wane from time to time, and put ourselves at risk of the influence of the prince of lies. Each time we sin, in fact---he wins a small victory. Each time we sin, we choose Satan over Jesus. Sobering thought. Our world is so crowded with material goods; our lives are so hectic. It is difficult to tear our focus away from this world and lift our eyes to heaven. And, maybe even more difficult to acknowledge the demonic presence existing alongside the visible world. Don't take him lightly. Peace, Fiosh Shalom Fiosh, Sorry, you've completely mis-stated the 2 sides, especially my stand. If you read my posts carefully, you'll see that I say there ARE illnesses, mental and other, that can be caused by demonic influence. However, I refute the assertions that ALL mental illness is caused by demons. And I refute that Christians need exorcism. No one is ignoring the enemy, I'm just not giving him more ground that he really has. And Christians would be wise to do the same. And, again, the Bible is clear that NO born-again child of G-d who has the Holy Spirit indwelling them can be indwelt by a demon. It's simply not Scriptural, no matter what the church might say. The Scriptures are the authority. My apologies, Vickilynn, my generalizations were apparently too general. Do you agree that Christians can be oppressed by demonic forces? Peace, Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 There seems to be two polar opposites in this debate: those who believe that all (or almost all) mental illness, and even most physical illness is the result of demonic forces. The other side argues that there is no such thing as demonic possession, or even demonic oppression still occurring in these post-modern times. Hmmmm.........well, folks, the reality lies somewhere in the middle. Satan and his minions are still alive and well, and wreaking havoc in the world. And, mental illness can be, and most often is, the result of emotional trauma, chemical imbalance or genetics. Maybe there's not a demon behind every rock. But let's face it, they're out there. To deny that is to deny Scripture: "Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour" I Peter 5:8 Unfortunately, exorcisms still occur. Real ones. No cameras, no reporters. You can scoff, eric, but the Catholic Church does still perform exorcisms. And, they are not entered into lightly. Before an exorcism is approved, serious research is done to determine that the source of the trouble is definitely demonic, and not some other source. You can say alot of things about the RCC, but it is slow to pronounce miracles ......and demonic activity. While alot of the discussion here is way over the top, Satan does exist. He is still "the prince of this world", and he knows his time is short. Yes, we already have the victory and he has no power over us----as long as we are submitted to Jesus. But many of us let our relationship wane from time to time, and put ourselves at risk of the influence of the prince of lies. Each time we sin, in fact---he wins a small victory. Each time we sin, we choose Satan over Jesus. Sobering thought. Our world is so crowded with material goods; our lives are so hectic. It is difficult to tear our focus away from this world and lift our eyes to heaven. And, maybe even more difficult to acknowledge the demonic presence existing alongside the visible world. Don't take him lightly. Peace, Fiosh Shalom Fiosh, Sorry, you've completely mis-stated the 2 sides, especially my stand. If you read my posts carefully, you'll see that I say there ARE illnesses, mental and other, that can be caused by demonic influence. However, I refute the assertions that ALL mental illness is caused by demons. And I refute that Christians need exorcism. No one is ignoring the enemy, I'm just not giving him more ground that he really has. And Christians would be wise to do the same. And, again, the Bible is clear that NO born-again child of G-d who has the Holy Spirit indwelling them can be indwelt by a demon. It's simply not Scriptural, no matter what the church might say. The Scriptures are the authority. My apologies, Vickilylnn, my generalizations were apparently too general. Do you agree that Christians can be oppressed by demonic forces? Peace, Fiosh Shalom Fiosh, Yes, I do. Thank you Fiosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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