Ovedya Posted August 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted August 3, 2007 rekrul, Tell me if the following statement sounds familiar to you: "Jesus is the Logos of God. There was a time when the Logos was not. Therefore Jesus cannot be God, because God is eternal and uncreated. Jesus, as the Logos of God was created in time, and therefore had a beginning. Since God has no beginning, Jesus cannot be God. Jesus was born of God, and is therefore the Son of God. Because God is His Father, Jesus is a perfect and exalted man, But He is not God." If you agree with the entirety of that statement...In fact, if you agree with most or part of that statement, then you agree with the heresy of Arius. The Arian heresy was dealt with thoroughly at the first Council of Nicea, and it stands even today as a heresy of the church. It is not the orthodox view of the church of Christ, and it cannot be. So my only question to you is, how do you feel personally with having aligned yourself with a known heresy of the church? Do you believe that Arius was right? If so, why? And if Arius was right, then would you agree that it must mean the orthodox church for the past 1,700 years has been wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted August 4, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I hadn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLuke Posted August 4, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 628 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1985 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I wrote this a while ago, but it seems quite applicable here again: ----- Jesus was man and God (please note the bold red text). Jesus is God in the visible, physical world that we know and live in. God has to come into this world to make a sacrifice of Himself by His own sinless blood that hasn't been tainted by Original Sin in order to wash away the sins of all the people of Humankind. It is the pinnacle of all sacrifices made and is the one and only sacrifice ever needed to be set free from sin, (see the Old Testament for how and why sacrifices were made - they all foreshadow Christ's crucifixion). These Old Testament sacrifices could only be done by a priest and one done annually. They had to keep on sacrificing for the people and sacrifice had to be made for the priest himself for his own sins, but Christ was/is spotless and sinless and is the perfect High Priest to offer Himself as sacrifice one time and one time only. Only God could do this. Only God is pure, spotless and sin-free. So only God Himself could be a worthy sacrifice offering for the sake of the people of the world, that is, God in a human physical form - Jesus. Colossians 1: 15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, 16 for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebmilc Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 204 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/07/1949 Share Posted August 11, 2007 (edited) I hadn Edited August 13, 2007 by Rebmilc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted August 13, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Ah, so what you seem to be saying is that unless a person agrees with your interpretation of scripture and accepts that Jesus is God, he / she will die in their sins - not enter the kingdom of heaven, and therefore go to hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebmilc Posted August 13, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 204 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/07/1949 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Ah, so what you seem to be saying is that unless a person agrees with your interpretation of scripture and accepts that Jesus is God, he / she will die in their sins - not enter the kingdom of heaven, and therefore go to hell? Sadly Mutzreim it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted August 13, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Ah, so what you seem to be saying is that unless a person agrees with your interpretation of scripture and accepts that Jesus is God, he / she will die in their sins - not enter the kingdom of heaven, and therefore go to hell? We didn't say it... He said it... John 8:24 "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnForChrist Posted August 13, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 81 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/21/1990 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Ah, so what you seem to be saying is that unless a person agrees with your interpretation of scripture and accepts that Jesus is God, he / she will die in their sins - not enter the kingdom of heaven, and therefore go to hell? We didn't say it... He said it... John 8:24 "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." Yep even more. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." John 9:35-39: 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted August 14, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Ah, so what you seem to be saying is that unless a person agrees with your interpretation of scripture and accepts that Jesus is God, he / she will die in their sins - not enter the kingdom of heaven, and therefore go to hell? We didn't say it... He said it... John 8:24 "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." And I have no problem believing every word that Jesus spoke. He never claimed to BE God. He claimed to be the son of God. He claimed to have come from the Father. He claimed to be the light of the world. He claimed that God, his father, honors him. He claimed to be the Christ. And He is my Lord. And I honor Him as such for He worthy of all glory & praise - having been exalted by God above all else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLuke Posted August 14, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 628 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1985 Share Posted August 14, 2007 And I have no problem believing every word that Jesus spoke. He never claimed to BE God. He claimed to be the son of God. He claimed to have come from the Father. He claimed to be the light of the world. He claimed that God, his father, honors him. He claimed to be the Christ. And He is my Lord. And I honor Him as such for He worthy of all glory & praise - having been exalted by God above all else. So what of Isaiah 9: 6? For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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