Guest shiloh357 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 So what is it you believe here? That the Father was only greater than Jesus while he was in human form? You are still confusing relationship and essence. If there are different roles for the Father and Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father, that should not be confused with the issue of whether or not both are God. Josh also brought up a good point. Jesus, while on earth, among other things, also endeavored to set an example before us as to how we are to walk in submission to the Father. Jesus demonstrated what our relationship to the Father should look like. Jesus lived in humility to His Father but at the same time, received worship and forgave sins in His own Name (not in the Name of the Father). Jesus did not have to get the Father's approval to heal, receive worship, to forgive sins, to raise the dead, to teach, etc. Jesus did these things under His own power, while at the same time living in complete submission to the Will of the Father. Jesus knew the Will of the Father, and He simply walked in that. Jesus did not have to ask for the power to do what He did, though. Jesus walked in Divine Power and loving obedience at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Jesus lived in humility to His Father but at the same time, received worship and forgave sins in His own Name (not in the Name of the Father). Jesus did not have to get the Father's approval to heal, receive worship, to forgive sins, to raise the dead, to teach, etc. Jesus did these things under His own power, while at the same time living in complete submission to the Will of the Father. Jesus knew the Will of the Father, and He simply walked in that. Jesus did not have to ask for the power to do what He did, though. Jesus walked in Divine Power and loving obedience at the same time. Amen! Amen! Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted September 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Sorry for the delay in getting back to you Josh. So what is it you believe here? That the Father was only greater than Jesus while he was in human form? One way it was explained to me, God was separated from whom he loved because of sin, God wanted to be with us and walk with us, so he separated himself in the form of Jesus, Jesus walked amongst us and died for our sins, But when he died we received the Holy spirits, which is God dwelling inside of us. I believe that The father was greater than Jesus in the sense of the flesh, but Jesus was God in the sense of the spirit. 1 John 5:20 20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Heres a very important verse for understanding the trinity, 1 John 5:7-8 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. Notice the contrast of the example, It uses the SPirit, the Water, and the blood, as an example of how the trinity works, But one important thing to note, it says The these three agree as one, Now right before that, it says in verse 7, These three ARE one. Now, My question for you, Do you fully believe what the bible says? John 1:1-4 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. Now apply this verse to 1st John 5:7-8. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grungekid Posted September 13, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 660 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1990 Share Posted September 13, 2007 the Word was with God, and the Word was God. It goes on to say that the Word took human form, if anyone missed that part. There really shouldn't be any doubt: Jesus is God. He's a part of the Trinity. To explain this, I would like to point to the genius who made an exquisite comparison of the different forms of water to the Trinity. Three personas are one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLuke Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 628 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1985 Share Posted September 14, 2007 To explain this, I would like to point to the genius who made an exquisite comparison of the different forms of water to the Trinity. Three personas are one. I always preferred and like this little story of explaining the Trinity.. A Muslim is speaking with a Christian missionary, he says "my friend I cannot understand how it is that three can be one!" The Christian missionary, contemplates how to answer the question and looks up towards the sky. As he does so he sees the sun and puts a question to his muslim friend "My friend tell me what is it that makes the sun we see in the sky?" "I do not understand" replied the muslim. "Well," said the missionary, "tell what it is that you feel from the sun." The muslim thought for a moment and replied, "I feel the warmth that the sun gives to us each day." The christian nodded, " And what my friend do you see from the sun?" "See?" questioned the muslim, not quite understanding, he thought for moment then answered, "I see everything around me, without the light from the sun I would and could not see." The christian nodded his understanding of his muslim friends explanation, "what gives the light and warmth its power my friend?" asked the christian to the muslim. "it is the body behind the warmth and the light dear christian!" the muslim answered then suddenly understood and began nodding his head. "Yes, and so it is with my Heavenly Father, for He is the body behind the Light, the Light is our Lord Jesus Christ, sent into our world to set us free, the Warmth, is the Holy Spirit, His heart which he has left with us. " the christian looked towards his friend and asked, "tell me my friend, if I took the light from the sun in the sky, would it be the sun?" "no, for we would be in darkness!" said the muslim. "And if I took the warmth from the sun, would it be the sun?" asked the christian. "no," said the muslim,"for we would be cold and without hope!" "And what would happen if I took the body of the sun away?" asked the christian. "We would wither and die without the light, and warmth, without the body we would be nothing." "So it is with our heavenly Father, God the Father is the body, God the Son is the light, God the Holy Spirit is the Warmth, thus three can be one!" The muslim nodded, in his understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebmilc Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 204 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/07/1949 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Ten years or so ago I was debating a Jehovah's witness on the trinity doctrine, and to help his understanding I used the room in which we were sat. I said this room is made up of threefold space, Height length and width. Height can say I take up all the space in this room and he does, length can say I take up all the space in this room and he does, and width can say I take up all the space in this room and he does. Yet they are all seperate components of space. That helped him tremendously in understanding the Doctrine of the Trinity. Just thought I would share that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted September 14, 2007 To explain this, I would like to point to the genius who made an exquisite comparison of the different forms of water to the Trinity. Three personas are one. I always preferred and like this little story of explaining the Trinity.. A Muslim is speaking with a Christian missionary, he says "my friend I cannot understand how it is that three can be one!" The Christian missionary, contemplates how to answer the question and looks up towards the sky. As he does so he sees the sun and puts a question to his muslim friend "My friend tell me what is it that makes the sun we see in the sky?" "I do not understand" replied the muslim. "Well," said the missionary, "tell what it is that you feel from the sun." The muslim thought for a moment and replied, "I feel the warmth that the sun gives to us each day." The christian nodded, " And what my friend do you see from the sun?" "See?" questioned the muslim, not quite understanding, he thought for moment then answered, "I see everything around me, without the light from the sun I would and could not see." The christian nodded his understanding of his muslim friends explanation, "what gives the light and warmth its power my friend?" asked the christian to the muslim. "it is the body behind the warmth and the light dear christian!" the muslim answered then suddenly understood and began nodding his head. "Yes, and so it is with my Heavenly Father, for He is the body behind the Light, the Light is our Lord Jesus Christ, sent into our world to set us free, the Warmth, is the Holy Spirit, His heart which he has left with us. " the christian looked towards his friend and asked, "tell me my friend, if I took the light from the sun in the sky, would it be the sun?" "no, for we would be in darkness!" said the muslim. "And if I took the warmth from the sun, would it be the sun?" asked the christian. "no," said the muslim,"for we would be cold and without hope!" "And what would happen if I took the body of the sun away?" asked the christian. "We would wither and die without the light, and warmth, without the body we would be nothing." "So it is with our heavenly Father, God the Father is the body, God the Son is the light, God the Holy Spirit is the Warmth, thus three can be one!" The muslim nodded, in his understanding. Awesome way to put it, I've never thought of it in comparison to the sun. Thats an awesome way to explain it, Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Ten years or so ago I was debating a Jehovah's witness on the trinity doctrine, and to help his understanding I used the room in which we were sat. I said this room is made up of threefold space, Height length and width. Height can say I take up all the space in this room and he does, length can say I take up all the space in this room and he does, and width can say I take up all the space in this room and he does. Yet they are all seperate components of space. That helped him tremendously in understanding the Doctrine of the Trinity. Just thought I would share that. I've used Hight, length, and width to explain it before, Thats an awesome analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grungekid Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 660 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1990 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I still really like the water analogy because it shows three different forms of the same substance in comparison to a being that comprised three quite clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I still really like the water analogy because it shows three different forms of the same substance in comparison to a being that comprised three quite clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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