sweetycakes Posted August 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 162 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,867 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,122 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/23/1964 Share Posted August 10, 2007 No....the koran does not teach violence in any sense of the word. It is a totally peaceful religion, and we should all adopt it without any further discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2007 Trying to lump Christianity with the cult of Islam is like trying to store your food (the word of God) in the same container as your garbage (the insane rantings of the pedophile prophet). Totally unworkable scenario. Islam is NOT a religion. islam is an Abrahamic-based religion just like judaism and christianity. Just because you don't like the religion of islam doesn't mean it's not a religion. According to the American Heritage Dictionary: "re Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnomelon Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/07/1978 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Why wouldn't a cult be considered a religion? I'm not sure if I would classify Islam as a "cult," but one can't deny that it has many cult-like qualities. For example, compare Mormonism and Islam: both religions have founders claiming to be the last great "prophet" of God; both Joseph Smith and Muhammad wrote religious texts to supplement the preexisting Scriptures; both have restorationist ideologies and claim the true message was distorted and the religion corrupted; both are highly exclusivistic (however, this would also apply to many non-cult religions, including orthodox Christianity); and, interestingly enough, both of their founders were polygamists. lol. But I think we must be careful. There is a thin line between a cult and a distinct religion, as well as, a heretical cult and a heterodox sect. Christianity itself might have been regarded as a Judaic cult by the rabbinic Jews of the first century or even by the Roman occupiers. However, the concept of a "cult" is sociological and not necessarily theological, so, regardless of the truthfulness of this accusation, I fail to see the relevance. Islam, I'm fully convinced, is at heart a violent, oppressive, and imposing religion. Christendom has a dark history that we Christians cannot run away from. Most (but certainly not all) past atrocities committed in the name of Christ were ordained by the Roman Church -- usually for political reasons, for the sake of extended control and increased power, not because of any divine mandate found in the Scriptures. Guys, there is no Christian equivalent to jihad. Islam is more than a religion; it is a geopolitical movement. I've heard it said frequently, "Well, Christianity and Islam are fundamentally the same. They are only superficially different, and both major religions have their nuts and crazies." I believe this understanding is backwards: both religions are superficially the same but fundamentally different. We have only to look at the character and lives of their founders. The allegedly Christian crusaders and inquisitors were not acting in the spirit of Jesus Christ, however the militant Muslim terrorists we face today are certainly acting in the spirit of Muhammad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetycakes Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 162 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,867 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,122 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/23/1964 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Trying to lump Christianity with the cult of Islam is like trying to store your food (the word of God) in the same container as your garbage (the insane rantings of the pedophile prophet). Totally unworkable scenario. Islam is NOT a religion. islam is an Abrahamic-based religion just like judaism and christianity. Just because you don't like the religion of islam doesn't mean it's not a religion. According to the American Heritage Dictionary: "re Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2007 Why wouldn't a cult be considered a religion? I'm not sure if I would classify Islam as a "cult," but one can't deny that it has many cult-like qualities. For example, compare Mormonism and Islam: both religions have founders claiming to be the last great "prophet" of God; both Joseph Smith and Muhammad wrote religious texts to supplement the preexisting Scriptures; both have restorationist ideologies and claim the true message was distorted and the religion corrupted; both are highly exclusivistic (however, this would also apply to many non-cult religions, including orthodox Christianity); and, interestingly enough, both of their founders were polygamists. lol. But I think we must be careful. There is a thin line between a cult and a distinct religion, as well as, a heretical cult and a heterodox sect. Christianity itself might have been regarded as a Judaic cult by the rabbinic Jews of the first century or even by the Roman occupiers. However, the concept of a "cult" is sociological and not necessarily theological, so, regardless of the truthfulness of this accusation, I fail to see the relevance. Islam, I'm fully convinced, is at heart a violent, oppressive, and imposing religion. Christendom has a dark history that we Christians cannot run away from. Most (but certainly not all) past atrocities committed in the name of Christ were ordained by the Roman Church -- usually for political reasons, for the sake of extended control and increased power, not because of any divine mandate found in the Scriptures. Guys, there is no Christian equivalent to jihad. Islam is more than a religion; it is a geopolitical movement. I've heard it said frequently, "Well, Christianity and Islam are fundamentally the same. They are only superficially different, and both major religions have their nuts and crazies." I believe this understanding is backwards: both religions are superficially the same but fundamentally different. We have only to look at the character and lives of their founders. The allegedly Christian crusaders and inquisitors were not acting in the spirit of Jesus Christ, however the militant Muslim terrorists we face today are certainly acting in the spirit of Muhammad. The relevance of calling Islam a cult? That statement is in answer to FaithQuestions' assertion that islam is a religion. If you are one who still believes that islam is a religion you should probably read the Qu'ran. And, while I'm on that subject, Mormonism is a cult as well. Muhammad and Joseph Smith are two manifestations of the same malaise; although Smith didn't advocate violence, these two men were not of God, they were false prophets. Cults most certainly are founded on theology; almost all of them on Christian theology twisted into a roadmap to hell. And I don't think modern day Christians can be held accountable for the Crusades, the Inquisition, or the myriad of other atrocities committed in the Lord's name; why would we need to run from them? I'll agree with your statement about the superficial similarities between islam and Christianity. As I said before, satan always mimics God and islam is the result. It's awful to think of how many will be lost because of islam, the biggest deception ever visited upon mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesorgo Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 89 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/10/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2007 This was pulled from : http://www.dianedew.com/islam.htm "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (Koran 47:4). "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers"; "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (Koran 8:12; cp. 8:60). "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed" (Koran 9:73). "slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace..." (Koran 5:34). "for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (Koran 22:19-22) "Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme." (Koran 8:37) The Koran instructs not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (Koran 5:51) but to war against them: "When the Sacred Months are over, kill those who ascribe partners to God wheresoever ye find them; seize them, encompass them, and ambush them; then if they repent and observe prayer and pay the alms, let them go their way (Koran 4:5). "Fight against those who believe not in God nor in the Last Day, who... refuse allegiance to the True Faith from among those who have received the Book, until they humbly pay tribute out of hand." (Koran 9:29) Note: These verses distinguish between warfare against pagans, and against Jews and Christians.[17] "...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191); "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5); "murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123). "Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37) Allah himself is really the one slaying them: "It is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself." (Koran 8:17; cp. Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190) Allah "will punish them by our hands..." (Koran 9:14). Jihad is mandatory. "Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (Koran 9:38-39). "And what is the matter with you that you do not fight in the cause of Allah and for those weak, ill treated and oppressed among men, women and children whose only cry is; 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors..." (Surah An-Nisa 4:75) "Believers, when you encounter the armies of the infidels do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons, or to join another band he shall incur the wrath of Allah and Hell shall be his home: an evil fate." (Koran 8:12-17) Whats your take on this. If your muslim and you follow the koran then you must believe in violence on the non-muslim. Jedi-diah The bible is just as bloody. Have you ever read the Qu'ran? If not than your taking those out of context and they could be reffering to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesorgo Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 89 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/10/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2007 Why wouldn't a cult be considered a religion? I'm not sure if I would classify Islam as a "cult," but one can't deny that it has many cult-like qualities. For example, compare Mormonism and Islam: both religions have founders claiming to be the last great "prophet" of God; both Joseph Smith and Muhammad wrote religious texts to supplement the preexisting Scriptures; both have restorationist ideologies and claim the true message was distorted and the religion corrupted; both are highly exclusivistic (however, this would also apply to many non-cult religions, including orthodox Christianity); and, interestingly enough, both of their founders were polygamists. lol. But I think we must be careful. There is a thin line between a cult and a distinct religion, as well as, a heretical cult and a heterodox sect. Christianity itself might have been regarded as a Judaic cult by the rabbinic Jews of the first century or even by the Roman occupiers. However, the concept of a "cult" is sociological and not necessarily theological, so, regardless of the truthfulness of this accusation, I fail to see the relevance. Islam, I'm fully convinced, is at heart a violent, oppressive, and imposing religion. Christendom has a dark history that we Christians cannot run away from. Most (but certainly not all) past atrocities committed in the name of Christ were ordained by the Roman Church -- usually for political reasons, for the sake of extended control and increased power, not because of any divine mandate found in the Scriptures. Guys, there is no Christian equivalent to jihad. Islam is more than a religion; it is a geopolitical movement. I've heard it said frequently, "Well, Christianity and Islam are fundamentally the same. They are only superficially different, and both major religions have their nuts and crazies." I believe this understanding is backwards: both religions are superficially the same but fundamentally different. We have only to look at the character and lives of their founders. The allegedly Christian crusaders and inquisitors were not acting in the spirit of Jesus Christ, however the militant Muslim terrorists we face today are certainly acting in the spirit of Muhammad. The relevance of calling Islam a cult? That statement is in answer to FaithQuestions' assertion that islam is a religion. If you are one who still believes that islam is a religion you should probably read the Qu'ran. And, while I'm on that subject, Mormonism is a cult as well. Muhammad and Joseph Smith are two manifestations of the same malaise; although Smith didn't advocate violence, these two men were not of God, they were false prophets. Cults most certainly are founded on theology; almost all of them on Christian theology twisted into a roadmap to hell. And I don't think modern day Christians can be held accountable for the Crusades, the Inquisition, or the myriad of other atrocities committed in the Lord's name; why would we need to run from them? I'll agree with your statement about the superficial similarities between islam and Christianity. As I said before, satan always mimics God and islam is the result. It's awful to think of how many will be lost because of islam, the biggest deception ever visited upon mankind. Than jewish people must think christianity is a cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted August 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2007 Than jewish people must think christianity is a cult. That statement is SO wrong on SO many levels.......and SO irrelevant to the topic at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnomelon Posted August 12, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/07/1978 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Why wouldn't a cult be considered a religion? I'm not sure if I would classify Islam as a "cult," but one can't deny that it has many cult-like qualities. For example, compare Mormonism and Islam: both religions have founders claiming to be the last great "prophet" of God; both Joseph Smith and Muhammad wrote religious texts to supplement the preexisting Scriptures; both have restorationist ideologies and claim the true message was distorted and the religion corrupted; both are highly exclusivistic (however, this would also apply to many non-cult religions, including orthodox Christianity); and, interestingly enough, both of their founders were polygamists. lol. But I think we must be careful. There is a thin line between a cult and a distinct religion, as well as, a heretical cult and a heterodox sect. Christianity itself might have been regarded as a Judaic cult by the rabbinic Jews of the first century or even by the Roman occupiers. However, the concept of a "cult" is sociological and not necessarily theological, so, regardless of the truthfulness of this accusation, I fail to see the relevance. Islam, I'm fully convinced, is at heart a violent, oppressive, and imposing religion. Christendom has a dark history that we Christians cannot run away from. Most (but certainly not all) past atrocities committed in the name of Christ were ordained by the Roman Church -- usually for political reasons, for the sake of extended control and increased power, not because of any divine mandate found in the Scriptures. Guys, there is no Christian equivalent to jihad. Islam is more than a religion; it is a geopolitical movement. I've heard it said frequently, "Well, Christianity and Islam are fundamentally the same. They are only superficially different, and both major religions have their nuts and crazies." I believe this understanding is backwards: both religions are superficially the same but fundamentally different. We have only to look at the character and lives of their founders. The allegedly Christian crusaders and inquisitors were not acting in the spirit of Jesus Christ, however the militant Muslim terrorists we face today are certainly acting in the spirit of Muhammad. The relevance of calling Islam a cult? That statement is in answer to FaithQuestions' assertion that islam is a religion. If you are one who still believes that islam is a religion you should probably read the Qu'ran. You missed my very first point: I believe that cults are religions. I'm not sure why you think "cult" and "religion" are mutually exclusive terms. And, while I'm on that subject, Mormonism is a cult as well. Muhammad and Joseph Smith are two manifestations of the same malaise; although Smith didn't advocate violence, these two men were not of God, they were false prophets. I agree with this. Although I tend to believe that Muhammad actually had [demonic] spiritual experiences and believed himself to be a messenger of God, whereas Joseph Smith was simply a fraud. I could be wrong about the prophet of Islam, but that is my opinion. Cults most certainly are founded on theology; almost all of them on Christian theology twisted into a roadmap to hell. And I don't think modern day Christians can be held accountable for the Crusades, the Inquisition, or the myriad of other atrocities committed in the Lord's name; why would we need to run from them? Cult belief systems are distortions of existing theologies, yes. I was making reference to the fact that "cult" is a sociological label in church-sect typology, not simply another name for a religious group with absurd and/or false doctrines. Perhaps "run away from" was a poor choice of words. I'll rephrase: we believers cannot ignore Christendom's history of bloodshed. It is one of the reasons that some non-Christians have difficulty believing that our doctrines are as powerful and efficacious as we claim. We should not be held accountable for atrocities committed in Jesus' name many centuries ago, but as amateur apologists we have an obligation to explain that self-identified Christians who act savagely for the sake of God's kingdom are not acting in accordance with the biblical teaching. A religion should never be judged by its abuses. Militant Muslims, however, may adhere to more medieval interpretations of certain Qur'anic passages, but their ideology does not conflict with the teachings of Muhammad, as he himself was a warlord and a man of violence. I'll agree with your statement about the superficial similarities between islam and Christianity. As I said before, satan always mimics God and islam is the result. It's awful to think of how many will be lost because of islam, the biggest deception ever visited upon mankind. It is really sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
None Posted August 12, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1908 Share Posted August 12, 2007 This was pulled from : http://www.dianedew.com/islam.htm "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (Koran 47:4). "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers"; "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (Koran 8:12; cp. 8:60). "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed" (Koran 9:73). "slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace..." (Koran 5:34). "for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (Koran 22:19-22) "Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme." (Koran 8:37) The Koran instructs not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (Koran 5:51) but to war against them: "When the Sacred Months are over, kill those who ascribe partners to God wheresoever ye find them; seize them, encompass them, and ambush them; then if they repent and observe prayer and pay the alms, let them go their way (Koran 4:5). "Fight against those who believe not in God nor in the Last Day, who... refuse allegiance to the True Faith from among those who have received the Book, until they humbly pay tribute out of hand." (Koran 9:29) Note: These verses distinguish between warfare against pagans, and against Jews and Christians.[17] "...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191); "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5); "murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123). "Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37) Allah himself is really the one slaying them: "It is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself." (Koran 8:17; cp. Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190) Allah "will punish them by our hands..." (Koran 9:14). Jihad is mandatory. "Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (Koran 9:38-39). "And what is the matter with you that you do not fight in the cause of Allah and for those weak, ill treated and oppressed among men, women and children whose only cry is; 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors..." (Surah An-Nisa 4:75) "Believers, when you encounter the armies of the infidels do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons, or to join another band he shall incur the wrath of Allah and Hell shall be his home: an evil fate." (Koran 8:12-17) Whats your take on this. If your muslim and you follow the koran then you must believe in violence on the non-muslim. Jedi-diah Sick people in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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