senerhu Posted September 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 120 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2007 So part of the issue is that Ms. White writes books? I doubt that there are any authors out there that would write books and give them away for free. I say kudos to Ms. White for being intelligent enough to author those books. And I believe that is a part of her ministry. If anyone has this much of a problem with her, then why not write Paula White's ministry and express your displeasure with her? Let her and her ministry know that you feel she needs to resign her position, because of her unfortunate divorce. Even better than that, draw up a petition and have people that agree with you sign it and turn it in to her ministry. You probably won't get very far, but addressing Ms. White and her ministry with your displeasure directly, would be better than dogging her or smearing her about it on a public forum... You're too funny, you know that? Bringing out facts and holding church leaders accountable is hardly smearing. And pointing out the incongruity of a person's words and their actions is also not smearing. It's called being caught by your bait. Moon phases, maybe? You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cag7800 Posted September 8, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 277 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1956 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Many years ago our beloved pastor wished to resign because is daughter became pregnant out of wedlock. We "voted" to let him stay. Was that wrong? 1 Timothy 3:4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) First of all, if he wanted to resign, it doesn't seem like a vote of the congregation would change his mind. Beyond that, just because his daughter became pregnant doesn't mean he wasn't doing everything in his power to manage his own home. I suppose in a differen't time, he would have demanded that a chaparone be present with her on every date, and maybe that is a custom that should be revived, but no matter how good a Father this man is, there is no way he can guarantee his daughter will never go against the teachings he instilled in her. I would have no problem with him remaining. I don't think a minister can be responsible for the actions of his adult daughter. If she was in her 20's, say, a chaperon would be ridiculous. The Biblical guidelines are are guidelines, that's all. They don't mean that a minister has to be sinless and perfect and that his family has to be the same way. We are all sinful, and as long as the minister strives to raise his children in the fear and admonition of the Lord, who can demand for more? The daughter was a teen ager still living at home. He left it up to the congreagation if he stayed or went. We loved him enough to let him stay. Actually, if memory serves right, we asked, begged and pleaded that he stay. Although, I believe that things changed after this event. He changed. His preaching changed. It's hard to say really but there was something different. Still, to me, he was one of the greatest men who ever lived because he befriended my father and brought him to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ! It's probably not right, but in my eyes, this guy could do no wrong. Even if she was still a teenager and under his roof, he couldn't watch her 24 hours a day. As I said earlier, I suppose he could have insisted on a chaperone, but nobody does that today. Considering the number of teenagers who wind up pregnant, perhaps the practice should be revived? The matter of his message changing would concern me. I remember when the Jimmy Swaggart scandle took place in the 80s. After the dust had settled, his message changed. I suppose he was no longer able to preach the gospel without compromise anymore because his conscience condemned him, so the message was differen't. I am in no wise condoning his actions, but to me, if he is going to remain in the ministry, he owes it to his audience to stand up for the truth, regardless of personal failures. For all I know, he may be in his mind doing just that? He may have decided that his original message didn't work, so he changed it? I just know something changed, and it effected the message his son preaches as well. I also know a preacher that got a divorce and continued on in the ministry. He eventually re-married, and with his new wife came a new doctrine. It was much more accepting of sin. I think there is something on the inside that makes one believe they are better off preaching a lukewarm doctrine and not being a hypocrite, than standing strong on the truth, but to me, if the message suffers, the minister is no longer doing his job, and would be better off resigning. All that being said, I am not making any judgements on your Pastor Biblicist. He probably is a God fearing man, and I have never heard him preach, before or after the incident. He really shouldn't feel personal condemnation for his daughter's actions, anymore than the Father of the prodigal son was responsible for his failures, but apparently he takes the scriptures about running one's household to mean that he was at fault in what happened with his daughter. I support Jimmy Swaggart ministries,I believe that God did change his message and I have a great deal of respect for his wife that has stuck by him all theses years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adonai1 Posted September 8, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 77 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 8, 2007 Keep your eyes on the Blesser .....God. Serve Him first before anything or anyone... Or... He can take it all away. Also keep that Love bonding relationship with your spouse and family....that God gave . God told me this a while back.... Don't mention the word ...divorce in a marriage...for that opens the door to the devil... and he will try and use anything to try and break up the marriage. He is the destroyer. He also told me to tell those who are married to speak Love in their marriage...not divorce. THANK YOU , LORD 100% in agree-ance with you Precious Jewel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cag7800 Posted September 12, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 277 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1956 Share Posted September 12, 2007 butero The matter of his message changing would concern me. I remember when the Jimmy Swaggart scandle took place in the 80s. After the dust had settled, his message changed. I suppose he was no longer able to preach the gospel without compromise anymore because his conscience condemned him, so the message was differen't. I am in no wise condoning his actions, but to me, if he is going to remain in the ministry, he owes it to his audience to stand up for the truth, regardless of personal failures. For all I know, he may be in his mind doing just that? He may have decided that his original message didn't work, so he changed it? I just know something changed, and it effected the message his son preaches as well. cag7800 I support Jimmy Swaggart ministries,I believe that God did change his message and I have a great deal of respect for his wife that has stuck by him all theses years. I used to support Jimmy Swaggart ministries in the 80s when he preached the uncompromised truth. The message he preaches today is very differen't, and unlike you, I don't believe it was God that changed it. It is not possible to believe the message he used to preach and to also believe the one he preaches today, so I reject his current doctrine. As far as his wife goes, I agree with you. She has stuck by him in spite of his personal failures, and I have a great deal of respect for her as well. We have people today ready to call it quits in a marriage for far less serious things than what Jimmy Swaggart did, so it is obvious that Francis took her wedding vows serious. I have no condemnation for Jimmy Swaggart because of his sins. Anyone can be overcome in a fault, and when we get to the point where we think differently, we better take heed lest we fall. If he were to return to the message he used to preach, and that I supported each month, I would return to watching his program, and perhaps giving to his ministry. I cannot support the message he currently preaches. I was once into the assemblies of God and I was becoming to discourged with the word of faith........it was then I found Jimmy's radio station here..I believe in the message of the cross. I believe that Christ told us to preach the gospel and nowhere does he say send the church (or the evanglist) a seed offering when you haven't a dime to your name. I was so discouraged because I felt that God wouldn't bless me because I had nothing to offer.Jimmy has taught me that my minstries and things I do for others is a type of offering. Christ knows my heart and I have had my faith in Him renewed. I collect bible and send them out to third world countries.every one has a right to there opinons and I'm not trying to argue or change your opinon,but not everyone is in to the word of faith anymore. I personaly believe God can use different people in different ways and I guess I shouldn't have used the words "changed the message", because God never changes. I should have said "Jimmy grew to the point, he could have a new revalation of God's word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cag7800 Posted September 12, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 277 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1956 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Hello Cag7800. I do want to clarify something based on what you said. Jimmy Swaggart was never into the "word of faith" movement. I have never been a believer in that movement either. There is nothing wrong with preaching about the cross. The differences in the Jimmy Swaggart message today as opposed to the 70s and 80s is where he places his emphasis. He used to stand strong against sin. Then after he stumbled, it was as if he had to come up with some type of explaination to why it happened? Answer, he wasn't fully trusting in the cross. I only have 2 Jimmy Swaggart messages from that time period. One is on a 3 record set called "Live One More Time" called "What Shall The End Be?" Another is a message I had taped off television one Sunday morning so I could watch it later. The message he preached then was strong and brought conviction. I don't find that to be the case today. This has absolutely nothing to do with sending money. I would love to have a collection of Brother Swaggart's sermons from that time period. I used to love to hear him preach, and even attended several of his crusades. I remember shaking his hand at one such event, as I was on the stage as a representative of a radio station I worked for. I don't know how long you have been watching Jimmy Swaggart, so you may not be all that familiar with his message in the 80s. In addition, I am not saying that Jimmy Swaggart is a false teacher in the likeness of people like Benny Hinn. I'm just saying that he is not the same preacher he used to be, and that those changes are also evident in what his son preaches. To me, that does not represent growth, but it is the result of shame. He cannot preach the way he used to because he feels like a hypocrite, and perhaps, because of his inner search to try to understand why he fell, he was genuinely seeking a doctrinal explaination. In his mind, the answer is that he wasn't fully trusting in the cross. To me, the truth is that he was simply overtaken in a fault, and had no one he could trust to turn to for council in his time of need. It is very sad, but there are people in the church today that if you sought help from them, as in wanting to make confession of sins, and wanted council, they would use the information to destroy you. Look at what happened to Jim Bakker. By no means do I condone what he did, and I never supported his ministry or his message, but neither do I condone the way Jerry Falwell deceived him into turning things over to him, so he could destroy his ministry. That was a matter that should have been handled internally, so as not to bring shame on the church to the world. Jim Bakker needed help. He needed someone to bring him to a place of financial accountability and a place of repentance. Instead, he got a so-called brother in the Lord that stabbed him in the back. I don't want you to think I am anti-Falwell as a whole. He has done a lot of good over the years, and I support his efforts with regard to the Moral Majority he had founded, but his actions with regard to the Bakers was wrong. Anyway, I feel very sad for what happened to Jimmy Swaggart. I wish there was some way he could turn back the hands of time, and that the scandle had not happened. He held powerful crusades and won untold numbers to Christ. There is no telling how many people have made it to heaven because of his efforts. In addition, he made a choice to serve God instead of following in the footsteps of his cousin Jerry Lee Lewis. He could have had fortune and fame, but chose service to God instead. I have no doubt he is a very sincere man, and I would love to be able to fully embrace his ministry again, but I can't. I am glad that he has blessed you personally, and am sorry you were hurt by the word of faith movement. You are not the only one. A lot of people have been taken in by false teachers. I thanks you for your reply.......I'm 51 I've been "penecostal" all my life and have listen to Jimmy as a small child...I have been blessed by listening to him,both in the 70's and 80's and now..since I do listen to him daily I believe that he does know he sinned and yes he did try to find out why a evanaglist in his standing could fall as hard as he did.I belive also that I have learned more under his message now than in the past.I would love have been at one of his crusades. I have been to Baton Rouge and meet him and Donnie..personally I like Donnie's preaching more...both can touch my heart. I so sorry that you can't see the message of the cross as good as the old days.and by the way Jimmy said he and kenneth copeland started the word of faith movement.Jimmy is now 75 years old he can't do the crusades anymore but I'm praying for Donnie to start them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ifnotforgrace Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 First of all, people are not sure that Paula's marriage is over yet. As the old saying goes, "it ain't over 'till it's over." We need to ask God to be with her and her husband during this time and to give them wisdom on how they can reconcile their differences. Last time I checked, God is in the miracle working business. Pray for her and for all of our leaders that are on the front lines taking the blows. Become and Aaron to them and their ministry. Just one good ole boy's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightofJesus Posted September 13, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 362 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/04/1955 Share Posted September 13, 2007 First of all I have read nearly all of these entries and I must admit I am appauled at the name calling and the slamming of character. We are one body, the Body of Christ! When a part of the body is hurt the whole body is suppose to share the pain. I stopped coming to these boards because of the name calling and backbiting here. It is awful and if you are not feeling convicted by the things some of you have said then I would check my own salvation and not worry about someone elses. Instead of throwing stones we should be throwing our arms around them with love and prayer. We also better be asking God for forgiveness of slander and the like before we can do any good for anyone else. Well saying all that I may not come back here again for awhile I just do not like all this kind of talk about my family!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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