ColleenLovesMischief Posted October 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,791 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/13/1977 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Here is what I can come up with regarding secret societies Secret societies are in conflict with the teachings of Holy Scripture. A Christian must never affiliate with any organization that 1) yokes together believers with unbelievers in unholy alliances (2 Cor. 6:14-18); 2) requires a pledge to unscriptural oaths which are sealed by using the name of God improperly or in vain (Ex. 20:7, Lev. 5:4-6, Matt. 5:34-37, James 5:12); 3) represents itself as providing teaching in harmony with the Bible when in fact it does not (2 Peter 3:16); 4) represents itself as being religious and offers a false hope of salvation through works, yet dishonors the only true God and our Savior the Lord Jesus Christ (John 17:3, 1 Tim. 2:3-6, Col. 2:8-10, Eph. 2:8,9). The Christian should "be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody" (Rom. 12:17). Secretively meeting behind closed doors in a "lodge" where activities are carried on behind a cloak of secrecy, in favor of fellow members, usually for economic, social, or political advantage hardly describes doing what is right in the eyes of everybody. "Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord" (2 Cor. 6:17). This is God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbarr Posted October 10, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/08/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2007 Thank you all for your inputs. You have provided some good information to ponder and consider. I believe that prayer is the most prudent thing one can do on either side of the issue. That said, I must stand firm on one point: The "higher degrees" (4-33) of the Scottish Rite do not speak for or represent the three degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry. Those three degrees are complete, and comprise the totality of Freemasonry. Appendant organizations like the Scottish Rite, York Rite, and Shriners are separate and distinct form Blue Lodge Freemasonry. They may claim to go into more depth or extend the Blue Lodge degrees, but they are just that, extensions. This historical chronology of the development of Freemasonry confirms this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hr.jr. Posted October 10, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 615 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2007 Thank you all for your inputs. You have provided some good information to ponder and consider. I believe that prayer is the most prudent thing one can do on either side of the issue. That said, I must stand firm on one point: The "higher degrees" (4-33) of the Scottish Rite do not speak for or represent the three degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry. Those three degrees are complete, and comprise the totality of Freemasonry. Appendant organizations like the Scottish Rite, York Rite, and Shriners are separate and distinct form Blue Lodge Freemasonry. They may claim to go into more depth or extend the Blue Lodge degrees, but they are just that, extensions. This historical chronology of the development of Freemasonry confirms this fact. Setting all the arguments about degrees and lodges aside, one fact remains. All Freemasonry, blue lodge included, is built on deistic doctrine. They are deists. They do not recognize that Jesus Christ and He alone is God. They do not recognize that He alone is the way of Salvation. Masons recognize a distant, uninvolved god. They recognize a path to him. Theay are a cult. Plain and simple, freemasonry is a cult. All freemasonry is Deistic, thus it is a false religion. The only distinction you are making is to what level each degree of freemasonry is wrapped up in the false doctrine. What you are saying is that on the level of the blue lodge, only a little false doctrine is taught; thus it is not that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbarr Posted October 10, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/08/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2007 I would argue that the god that the prayers are being offered to is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible has well defined parameters of how we are to access Him. Unfortunately, this is a point on which we will have to agree to disagree. Yes, the path to salvation is only through Jesus Christ, but "access" to God is not reserved exclusively to Christians. To imply that one who is not a Christian, yet believes in one true God cannot pray to "God" and be heard by God, in my opinion, is absurd. People can certainly "know God" and not be Christian. It boils down to their own free-will choice to accept or deny the saving blood of Jesus. What's being presented in a very thinly veiled form is the worship of a deity other than the God of the Bible. It is also part and parcel of the system of the rites and oaths to accept this. Again, we will have to agree to disagree as I believe that there is only one true God (see above.) And while prayer can be a form of worship, praying, in and of itself, is not necessarily worship. Again I ask, do you believe that Congress engages in worship because it prays at the opening of its session? Do you believe that Congress is engaging in desistic worship? And that is why I answered before that no, I do not believe that the lodge is a place of worship. It is a place of discussion and learning. The prayers offered to God at the opening and closing of the lodge are intended to remind us that we are not in control, God is, and that our actions and thoughts are to be be conducted within a God-centric, not man-centric context. The irony is that the lodge I go to is mostly comprised of professed Christians, and all prayer is ultimately given in the name of Jesus Christ. Would you say that masonry is a spiritual rite? Personally? No. I believe that it is an instructional tool. However I concede that there are many who believe it to be. As a Christian should you be participating in a spiritual exercise outside of the Church and the Worship of Jesus Christ whether you hold it to be one or not? That's an unfair question. It's like asking if I should participte in a Christian church service when I know that some of the members do not believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. My point is that to me and the majority of fellow lodge members, what goes on in the lodge is not spiritual but instructional and intellectual--big difference. Maybe this is not the prevailing view of the majority of Masonry, but it is the prevailing viewpoint of several of the lodges I have attended. OK, is this God to which he refers the same God of the Bible, or is it something different? Something entirely different for as of now and for the last two thousand years there has been and is no other way to come to Father except through the Son. It would be incumbent upon you to not allow his charade to continue but to be prepared with an answer both in season and out. For as a Christian you know the Truth. However you are standing with him and allowing him to remain in the darkness by agreeing with his misunderstanding. So what prevents me from evangelizing before or after a lodge meeting? At the center of all Creation and all of Heaven sits Jesus Christ and He deserves all the Worship and all the Glory for only He is Worthy. All the Angels in Heaven every creature created both above and below and all men will give Praise to His name both to their own personal shame in judgment and to His Glory in escaping it through His sacrifice. Why does Masonry not recognize this fact? Freemasonry is not trying to deny the truth of Christianity. It is trying to provide a level playing field where the bitterness that comes from religious and political disagreement do not exist. If religious and political discussions were permitted, then it would distract from and impede the meetings. We can evangelize all we want outside the lodge. In fact, by gaining an understanding of a lost person (Masonic or otherwise) we can better approach them as Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbarr Posted October 10, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/08/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2007 Setting all the arguments about degrees and lodges aside.... Isn't that a bit unfair considering that much of the criticism of Freemasonry described above and elsewhere focuses on the "higher" degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hr.jr. Posted October 10, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 615 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2007 Setting all the arguments about degrees and lodges aside.... Isn't that a bit unfair considering that much of the criticism of Freemasonry described above and elsewhere focuses on the "higher" degrees? No, it is not unfair. The organizational beliefs are unveiled to you in degrees. If the beliefs at the top are anti-Christ, then the entire organization is rotton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted October 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2007 Grace to you, jbarr, Unfortunately, this is a point on which we will have to agree to disagree. Yes, the path to salvation is only through Jesus Christ, but "access" to God is not reserved exclusively to Christians. To imply that one who is not a Christian, yet believes in one true God cannot pray to "God" and be heard by God, in my opinion, is absurd. People can certainly "know God" and not be Christian. It boils down to their own free-will choice to accept or deny the saving blood of Jesus. Please provide scriptural proof for your assertion that access to the Father and the knowledge of God is not limited to access through Jesus Christ. Do you believe that Congress is engaging in desistic worship? Yes. Especially when they call upon the various gods that they have called upon recently. They are not any longer seeking after the God of all Creation. The God of our Founding which is the Judeo/Christian God of the Bible. They are seeking the blessing of some relativistic nightmare of a God. Who has not defined Himslf. It is quite clear from the Bible that God has defined Himself and the relationship that He desires with men. Not too mention the organization of their Nations. Despite the fact that they ignore Him. And that is why I answered before that no, I do not believe that the lodge is a place of worship. Yet some are worshipping there by your own admittion and some are taking the whole experience spiritually by your own admittion. That's an unfair question. It's like asking if I should participte in a Christian church service when I know that some of the members do not believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It's not unfair at all. Your making comparisons that aren't equal either. Christian Church services are based upon the premise of the Worship of the One True God, Jesus Christ. Whether some believe or not. You've stated that there is a god at the center of Masonry whether it be the Blue Lodge or the Scottish Rites. Yet this god remains nameless. However God has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ. Joh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humbleseeker Posted October 5, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 519 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1980 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Yes and the York rite is primarily Christian in fact at the upper levels the Knights templar degrees members must be Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted October 5, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 5, 2009 What's with resurrecting an ancient thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing Posted October 5, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 400 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,903 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/19/1942 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Quick question: When did Freemasonry become 33 degrees? Aren't the degrees of 4 through 33 exclusive to the Scottish Rite which are separate from the three Blue Lodge degrees? And how does the York Rite fit into the picture? My understanding is that the York Rite is actually considered more of an extension of the three Blue Lodge degrees than the Scottish Rite. check out this site for info on the York Rite. http://www.kymason.com/information.htm Jim Marrs wrote an excellent book on the Freemasons, Knights Templar ect, on how they are all connected. Do research and read this book. And then make up your own mind about the Masons. Also another good ref. book is The Templar Revelation by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince. I must caution you that this book is very controversial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts