meagain Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 864 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/22/1954 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Everthing already belongs to God. I'm happy to give 10% and more so I can enjoy the other 90%. We are on a fixed income and don't miss it. God takes care of all we need, and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hr.jr. Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 615 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 My husband have been serching scripture to find out if tithing was just for the Old Testament. If so what are we to give now? I would be interested to read what the opinions of others are.... Kathy Glory to God, this post is not directed to you in particular but to christians in genral. The question of the New Testament tithe can be made quite complex if one desires to do so. The tithe was a part of the law so to speak. It can be argued that we are still bound by it. It can also be argued that we are no longer bound by it. The arguments that we are no longer bound by it are pointless in my opinion. We were promised that if we tithe, God will rebuke the devourer. That promise was never resceneded. That promise remains in effect. Tithe, God will rebuke the devourer. The tithe was an obligation. We are now instructed to cheerfully sew into the kingdom. A cheerful gift should far exceed the mandatory tithe. God promises 30, 60, and 100 fold return on the cheerful gift. So, even if one contends that the new testament standard is Liberty and cheerful giving; the new testament giver should far exceed the amount of the mandatory tithe with their cheerful gift. The new testament giver should be cheerfully giving in excess of the mandatory old testament tithe. If your giving is in excess of the tithe, why even spend time arguing over the requirement of the tithe? It has been my experience that most who argue against the tithe, in fact do not give at a level of 10% of their gross income. It amazes me that people will quibble over "should the tithe be on the gross or the net?" If you are so cheap and stingy that you want to tithe on the net and not the gross, just keep all the money for yourself. If you are closed fisting the gift, it is not being honored or received by God, so you would do well to just keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hr.jr. Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 615 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 OK, I'm probably going to bother some with my answer. I love the Old Testament. I do not see any reason why some feel there is a line of separation between parts of the Bible though. The only systematic theology I can think of that cannot stand without that line is replacement theology. I will never accept that heresy. It is a lie from the pit. I do not, however, feel that we as followers of the living Messiah should feel bound by an artificial set of rules concerning our giving. Instead, as is stated above, I strongly feel that we should give generously for the work of God on earth. We should personally give gifts to widows and orphans. We should care for the sick, elderly and needy. We should invest our time in love! Oh, by the way, the tithe of first five books of the Bible is repeated several times for different reasons and occasions. The total is more like 90% of what you have is God's and 10% is yours to do with as you please. If you do your tithes before taxes, you will end up with less than nothing. Bottom line? You don't have anything that is yours. All you have is Gods and that is all you need. I personally do not see how replacement theology, which is heresy in my opinion, is bolstered by separation of covenants. The old testament deals with various Covenants God made with men that can all be lumped together under the label "old Covenant." The New testament deals with the "New Covenant." There are most definitely elements of the old covenant that were completely abolished by the new covenant. If you doubt that, we can go into specifics. However, I think that you and everyone else on here with true scriptural knowledge knows the difference between the two covenants. With the change of covenants, we changed dispensations. The OT and the NT are dealing with totally different dispensations of God's redemptive plan for mankind. The old testament deals in types and shadows of the Redeemer. The New Testament deals with the Redeemer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 I don't see why it would be any different now. The church still needs to pay its pastors and meet expenses. And we still need to be reminded that all our money is God's, but He only asks for His 10%. And He will make our 90% go farther than if we kept the 100%. Is there any place where it says it's changed? Nope. At least, I have never found any scripture telling us that we don't need to tithe. I can think of a scripture where Jesus was standing, with the Disciples, near the offering bowl (for a lack of a better word) when a poor woman put in a coin. Jesus stated that she had put in more then the rich, for she gave all she had. Giving back only 10% is the least we should do. You said "I have never found any scripture telling us that we don't need to tithe." first Malachi was not written to the church it was written to Isreal the priest were robbing God read all of the book of Malachi, also apostle Paul wrote in Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written. Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. verse 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: fot it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. The tithe was for the levi priest as their portion they were not to have land it is under the law of Moses. most that promote tithes say that sence Abraham gave a tenth to Melchizedek in Genesis 14 and this was before the law of Moses we still have to give. WELL Abraham only gave the one time he also gave of the spoils not his own as we see in the book oh Heberews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. apostle Paul wrote how to give in 2 Corinthinas 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. Now I would like to address the poor widow tossing in her last cent, I believe that Jesus was comending this act he was heart broken because all the way through the Bible we are told to take care of the stranger, and fatherless, and widows, she should not have had to give her last cent if they were taking care of her. The scripture before in Mark 12 we see the lord is warning of the Scribes which devour widows houses Mark 12:38-44 be blessed Still, Brother, you have not pointed where it tells us that tithing is gone to the wayside. As I pointed to in one of my posts, we give out of our heart. 10% is so little, unless you have no money, that is when I brought up the poor lady who gave all. I refuse to argue about tithing, for it has nothing to do with salvation. We will all stand before God and give account for what we have done while living this life. He will search our hearts and know why we have done what we have done. If one gives tithes just for the fact that they think they will get a great reward, it will burn. Everything we do, tithing or any other works, has to be done in love, or we did it in vain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver72 Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 19 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 Several years ago I was at a convention of sorts, and the speaker began ranting about a well known Biblical teacher that I respect highly, and the issue was giving, or "tithing." This well known teacher taught that Christian giving under the New Testament is not dictated by law, but by grace. Give as you have been given. If you have been given to graciously by God, then give back graciously. He didn't attack the 10% rule, but taught rather don't be governed by it. Let the giving be an act of worship that truly honors the Lord. This is commonly known as grace giving. Then he went on to speak about how a certain pastor taught that at his church. The end result is that giving fell down dramatically. Many got upset with the pastor for preaching that. Rather than finding fault with the congregation, this speaker attacked the grace-giving concept. His idea was that if you don't preach or teach at the least a 10% "tithe" it won't work. People won't give if you leave it up to them. Churches cling to the "tithe" terminology to combat this mind-set. He failed to take into account that the church from which this well known teacher comes from practices grace giving, and they are financially able to minitser in anyway they wish. The church is very financially stable and even sends out and supports several of their own missionaries. He completely, totally failed to consider that the problem was a congregation that had little or no concept of the grace shown to them...little love for God that moved them to give. The "tithe" concept does come from the laws of the Hebrew Scriptures. Actually, there were several tithes throughout, and added on to them were various offerings. If a person wants to be a strict tither followng the Old Testament pattern of tithes and offerings, the total you'd be giving would NOT be 10%....it would come closer to 25-30% or more. As a I look into 2nd Cor chaps 8-9, and I see the generous giving that was done by Christians, what stands out is that the driving motivattion was "the grace of God," "abundance of joy," "giving themselves," "sincerity of...love," "proof of your love..." "cheerful giver" and the "surpassing grace of God in you." Now consider all of that. And now consider that if a congregation is given the freedom to determine for themselves how they will give (with no tithe language or terminology being used) and giving plummets downward, what is this really saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 Still, Brother, you have not pointed where it tells us that tithing is gone to the wayside. As I pointed to in one of my posts, we give out of our heart. 10% is so little, unless you have no money, that is when I brought up the poor lady who gave all. I refuse to argue about tithing, for it has nothing to do with salvation. We will all stand before God and give account for what we have done while living this life. He will search our hearts and know why we have done what we have done. If one gives tithes just for the fact that they think they will get a great reward, it will burn. Everything we do, tithing or any other works, has to be done in love, or we did it in vain. 1. tithe means tenth. "cheerful giver" does not mean that we ought to stop at the ten percent mark. if you give more than 10% and your are "pro-tithing" then you have broken the law. 2. we will nmot stand before God about tithing. God blesses us as we are alive and we give cheerfully. 2 Cor 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. those that are "pro-tithing" are getting blesses. those that are not under the tithe law, and give, are getting blesses also. issue with tithers is that they forget that the word "tithing" entails the biblical concept that it supports the temple where animal sacrifications took place. nowadays tithers let go of the biblical concept and just say 10%. its the same word but now took on a different concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 Still, Brother, you have not pointed where it tells us that tithing is gone to the wayside. As I pointed to in one of my posts, we give out of our heart. 10% is so little, unless you have no money, that is when I brought up the poor lady who gave all. I refuse to argue about tithing, for it has nothing to do with salvation. We will all stand before God and give account for what we have done while living this life. He will search our hearts and know why we have done what we have done. If one gives tithes just for the fact that they think they will get a great reward, it will burn. Everything we do, tithing or any other works, has to be done in love, or we did it in vain. 1. tithe means tenth. "cheerful giver" does not mean that we ought to stop at the ten percent mark. if you give more than 10% and your are "pro-tithing" then you have broken the law. 2. we will nmot stand before God about tithing. God blesses us as we are alive and we give cheerfully. 2 Cor 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. those that are "pro-tithing" are getting blesses. those that are not under the tithe law, and give, are getting blesses also. issue with tithers is that they forget that the word "tithing" entails the biblical concept that it supports the temple where animal sacrifications took place. nowadays tithers let go of the biblical concept and just say 10%. its the same word but now took on a different concept. #1 I agree with the first two sentences, but you got me confused with the third. Never heard of "pro-tithing" or that giving more then 10% is breaking the law?!?!? #2 We will stand accountable before God for everything that we do and say. I agree that God does bless us now, but He will also reward us later! #3 Agree, but still confused about where you got "pro-tithing" from. You seem to think that I am on the mind set that we should tithe only the stated 10%. For one, even though tithing is part of the OT law, I believe that we should give what we can from our heart. I also stated that there are some who think that what they give will be given back many fold, as if putting your money in stocks. I see this as wrong. As we give, whether it be money, food, time, whatever, we should not expect anything back in return. This is giving from the heart in love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 I believe that we should give what we can from our heart. I also stated that there are some who think that what they give will be given back many fold, as if putting your money in stocks. I see this as wrong. As we give, whether it be money, food, time, whatever, we should not expect anything back in return. This is giving from the heart in love. that is it. you and i see eye to eye from the statement you just made. when i say "pro-tithing" i mean those that ENFORCE tithing. if you give 9% you did not tithe. if you give 11% you DID NOT tithe. Maybe you can say you did a "tithe plus extra." TITHE means 10. not a percentage more and not a percentage less. people that ENFORCE tithe use the word loosely. The biblical concept of OT tithing is not the same concept we do now. So i will definately say "YES SUPPORT YOUR MINISTRY AND BE BLESSED!" However, I will never say the word "tithe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 Love goes a lot further then money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeilanS Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,763 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/23/1990 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I'm getting the impression that the word "Tithe" causes half the problem. Forget the word! Give cheerfully, if you can afford 5%, do that. If you can afford 50%, do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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